# How Many Top-Tier European Football League Games Have You Been To? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 23, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107 "2014-05-23T16:56:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107/21 "2014-06-10T10:10:01Z")
Mascaroni, seeing as you are a local, as someone that grew up in Kenilworth, Warwickshire, I’d always been confused as to why a place bloody miles away has a road named after a somewhat small town. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107/22 "2014-06-10T13:10:00Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Actually they have just won the Scottish League One. They had to restart from the bottom league due to the club being liquidated. It could be argued that they are not even the same club anymore. > > [Rangers F.C. - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C.#Liquidation_of_PLC_and_current_ownership) Whoah. I hadn’t heard about that (though it’s been nearly twenty years since I followed Scottish football closely.) ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107/23 "2014-06-10T21:23:51Z")
Part III (hopefully the last)… There was a big charge of Millwall at the Oak Road and a lot of missiles thrown. A lot of Luton from near the front of the stand ran back, but I’d been in similar kinds of situations at football (though not on this scale) to just watch for bottles coming your way. A lot of the bottles were thrown at the roof of the stand to smash them and throw broken glass on to the supporters below. The referee had called the players off the field as soon as charge had taken place and after about half an hour the Police with the aid of dogs had restored some kind of order. I didn’t know it at the time, but I’ve heard since that there were problems at the far end (the Kenilworth Road end) of the Bobbers, as there were now unsegregated Luton and Millwall fans, due to the overrowding at the Kenilworth Road end. I couldn’t really see from the other end of the ground but it seemed to me at the time that three sides of the ground were Millwall. The match restarted and Brian Stein soon scored for Luton. I watched some YouTube footage to jog my memories and was surprised at how close he was into goal. From the other end of the ground it looked like it was much farther out. Half time came… Les Sealey, the Luton goalkeeper turned to us in the Oak Road and, with a wry grin, crossed himself (catholic style) and walked off. I think he spent most of the second half (defending the goal at the Kenilworth Road end) on the edge of the 18 yard box. I don’t blame him… I don’t recall anything much of note in the second half apart from a build up of that sort of dull angry sound which I’ve only heard at football. I think it was was Nwaiajobi who blatantly handballed it for an attempted second Luton at the Oak Road end, but the ref quite rightly disallowed it. I think the ref probably waited until the ball was in midfield before he blew the final whistle, in order to give the players and officials a better chance of getting off the pitch without interference. As has been the practice a long time over here, the away fans tend to get held until the home fans have dispersed. A lot of Luton were obviously in a hurry to leave so we stood around and waited for rush to ‘die down’, as it were. We saw a few orange plastic seats thrown at the Police and stewards and loads of Millwall coming out of the gate to the left of the goal at the Kenilworth Road end. The police presence had built significantly by then and we left before most of the usual footage of the match had happened. We thought it would make Back Page headlines, not realising it would be the Front Page headline for every main newspaper in Britain the next day… ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107/24 "2014-06-10T22:45:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Whoah. I hadn’t heard about that (though it’s been nearly twenty years since I followed Scottish football closely.) The upcoming second-tier division is going to have Rangers, Hibs and Hearts in it - Rangers coming up and the other two having been relegated. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107/25 "2014-06-11T18:23:37Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Mascaroni, seeing as you are a local, as someone that grew up in Kenilworth, Warwickshire, I’d always been confused as to why a place bloody miles away has a road named after a somewhat small town. Any ideas? That piqued my curiosity, though it’s something I’ve never wondered about before. Someone else has though, and written this piece here, although there doesn’t seem to be a conclusive answer yet. The South African connection is an interesting one though. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107/26 "2014-06-11T18:56:00Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > …What do you make of the fact that the 30 odd people arrested (per the wiki article) weren’t even Millwall supporters? Did they arrest the wrong people or did Millwall away support just attract a freelance element? I’m not really sure. There were stories at the time that Palace, Charlton and even West Ham and Chelsea were there, but I think it is more likely that they were “dormant” Millwall, who only came out for the big games, and identified themselves in court as followers of other clubs to deflect the criticism of Millwall. There was some fighting between supporters in the Kenilworth Road end before the match, but I put that down to rival Millwall factions (civil wars are always the worst, trust me, I’m a Spurs fan!). It could have been the crush from the excess of people coming in, although I don’t think anyone in the Oak Road realised that it was happening. To be honest, I don’t know ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107/27 "2014-06-11T20:53:22Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > …I recently read Bill Buford’s “Among the Thugs” and thought the parts about football were very interesting (he also goes off on some odd tangents)… I know it was a critically acclaimed book, but, for me, there were so many things that didn’t ring true. I’d take it with a pinch of salt. > [@Erdosain](#): > > Thank you for another installment! When you say there were lots of people on the edge of the pitch at kickoff, do you mean they were in the area usually occupied by the stewards and ball boys? Did they actually step into the field of play during the game? That sounds crazy. Because of the crush, the police had to evacuate a lot of Millwall from the Kenilworth Road end to prevent (as I know now) a possible disaster on the scale of Hillsborough four years later. A lot were being led into other areas, but a lot were on the area between the stands and the touchlines/goal-line. I don’t recall seeing any incident on the field of play that would have provoked the early pitch invasion in the match. > [@](#): > > I’ve read a lot of horror stories about being crushed together in the fenced-in terraces (being swept off one’s feet, getting the air knocked out of you). Was this a common occurrence at matches you attended or only at certain games? No, never. Terraces had crush barriers. Sometimes (I’m talking at Tottenham here, rather than Luton). When we scored the crowd would sort of surge and sway, but it never felt dangerous. I’ve heard stories of people being lifted off their feet at The Kop at Liverpool when it it was a huge terrace. Also, in the old days of kids being passed over everyone’s heads so they could stand at the front. I wasn’t there, but when Spurs played Wolves in the 1981 F.A. Cup semi-final at Hillsborough there was a crush which it seems could have resulted in the same way as what happened eight years later. Lessons obviously weren’t learned, and football supporters continued to be treated as second class citizens… > [@](#): > > And finally, is Luton a well-supported side? In terms of numbers, compared to the big clubs I’d say no. They had a good run in the eighties and played in the top tier for a few years. It’s a relatively small town, and they were probably punching above their weight at that time. After an extremely harsh penalty for financial irregularities a few years back they are back in the fourth tier (The Football League in old money…) In terms of passion, I’d say yes. > [@](#): > > Thank you again for indulging my curiosity. As I said, I’ve enjoyed writing it… more memories come back as I think about it. Thanks for your interest! ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107/28 "2014-06-12T07:55:04Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > That piqued my curiosity, though it’s something I’ve never wondered about before. > > Someone else has though, and written this piece here, although there doesn’t seem to be a conclusive answer yet. > > The South African connection is an interesting one though. Thanks, that was really interesting. I’m going to pass it on to my football-crazy Dad too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-top-tier-european-football-league-games-have-you-been-to/689107.md?page=1)