# How many transplantable organs are wasted each year? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267 "2016-01-26T15:08:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/41 "2018-06-18T10:42:58Z")
(Also yes I realize that this is a bit of a climbdown from my previous position. That’s acknowledged, I overstated my case. Sorry.) ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/42 "2018-06-18T10:55:21Z")
> [@teflon\_grut](#): > > In a simple sense, this would work. But there are WAY too many avenues of abuse for something like that. You want a used car salesman talking you out of a kidney? Well hold on now, what kind of car are we talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/43 "2018-06-18T10:55:42Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > By definition, the difference between opt-in and opt-out systems only affects people who do _not_ feel strongly that it’s important to make a choice. No. Before writing out a will, I found out what would happen if I died intestate. Eventually I wrote that will, but because I’m pretty much never “at home” during working periods it was several years between finding out what the default was and writing my will on paper. Because I didn’t care? No. Because intestate, my brothers are my heirs in equal parts; if either or both predecease me, their children (by blood or adoption, and so long as they were already in-vitro, in-utero or in-adoption-process at the time of the death) inherit the part that would have gone to the deceased brother. My will says that my brothers are my heirs in equal parts, and that if either or both predecease me his children (as above) inherit the part that would have gone to the deceased brother. All putting it in writing did was confirm that hey, the inheritance laws I inherited from my foreparents actually match my desires, who would’a thought it. The written will makes the probate faster but doesn’t change the financial result. If you happen to agree with what your local system does, you do not need to do the paperwork. Do not assume that someone who hasn’t done it “doesn’t care”; they may care, and just figure that since the system agrees with them, the system will do what it should - which happens to be what they want it to do. My own system is opt-in because at one point more than 2/3 of the adult population had opted in and we petitioned Parliament to make it ok to skip the paperwork kthxmuch. Parliament agreed that, since most people wanted in, it made sense to make “in” the default. If, in your own society, most people do not want to donate, the default there should be “out”. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/44 "2018-06-18T11:12:31Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > No. > > Before writing out a will, I found out what would happen if I died intestate. Eventually I wrote that will, but because I’m pretty much never “at home” during working periods it was several years between finding out what the default was and writing my will on paper. Because I didn’t care? No. Because intestate, my brothers are my heirs in equal parts; if either or both predecease me, their children (by blood or adoption, and so long as they were already in-vitro, in-utero or in-adoption-process at the time of the death) inherit the part that would have gone to the deceased brother. > > My will says that my brothers are my heirs in equal parts, and that if either or both predecease me his children (as above) inherit the part that would have gone to the deceased brother. > > All putting it in writing did was confirm that hey, the inheritance laws I inherited from my foreparents actually match my desires, who would’a thought it. The written will makes the probate faster but doesn’t change the financial result. > > If you happen to agree with what your local system does, you do not need to do the paperwork. Do not assume that someone who hasn’t done it “doesn’t care”; they may care, and just figure that since the system agrees with them, the system will do what it should - which happens to be what they want it to do. My own system is opt-in because at one point more than 2/3 of the adult population had opted in and we petitioned Parliament to make it ok to skip the paperwork kthxmuch. Parliament agreed that, since most people wanted in, it made sense to make “in” the default. If, in your own society, most people do not want to donate, the default there should be “out”. [95% of Americans support Organ Donorship, but only 54% are registered](https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/transplant-update/2018/march/5-quick-facts-about-organ-donation). [2/3rds of Germans would personally donate, only 1/3rd have cards.](https://www.thelocal.de/20161103/germany-still-has-too-few-organ-donors-after-scandal) In Great Britain, [about 1/3rd of the population is registered as donors, but about 2/3rds of families support organ donorship](https://www.statista.com/statistics/519916/organ-donation-rate-united-kingdom-uk/). We seem to have a pretty clear pattern that about half the people who support being organ donors are actually willing to put in the work to register it. The current default actually doesn’t fit the will of the supermajority of people in any of these countries. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/45 "2018-06-18T13:33:18Z")
How many of those people actually donate when asked personally? How often is the first question out of a father’s mouth, when told “your son has been run over by a truck, we don’t expect him to survive”, “donation… will it be possible to donate any organs?”? It was the first thing my classmate Chus’ father asked. How many of the fathers you know do you think would truly have that attitude? How many of those people support being able to receive an organ but would never donate one (and I’ve met quite a few like that, but none of them in Spain)? Many of those people who say they are in favor of donation are like the former folkloric Catholics, nowadays folkloric atheists of Spain. They say what they think the other person wants to hear, but that doesn’t mean it’s got any actual impact on how they live their lives. They’re in favor of donation so long as the organs involved have no DNA in common with their own. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/46 "2018-06-18T14:13:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > How many of those people actually donate when asked personally? How often is the first question out of a father’s mouth, when told “your son has been run over by a truck, we don’t expect him to survive”, “donation… will it be possible to donate any organs?”? It was the first thing my classmate Chus’ father asked. How many of the fathers you know do you think would truly have that attitude? How many of those people support being able to receive an organ but would never donate one (and I’ve met quite a few like that, but none of them in Spain)? > > Many of those people who say they are in favor of donation are like the former folkloric Catholics, nowadays folkloric atheists of Spain. They say what they think the other person wants to hear, but that doesn’t mean it’s got any actual impact on how they live their lives. They’re in favor of donation so long as the organs involved have no DNA in common with their own. Okay, that’s an interesting perspective. A bit long in the claim and short in the evidence (why yes, if I found out my at this point hypothetical child was dead, my first question generally wouldn’t be “can he donate his organs”, it’ll probably more resemble a strangled wail, but that’s hardly an argument for what you’re saying), but interesting. Do you have any actual evidence that this is the case? Is there any empirical reason not based on a tiny sample size of personal anecdotes not to take the polls that consistently find support for organ donation at their word, but to assume they’re done in bad faith? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/47 "2018-06-18T18:26:36Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > What next? Forced donation from living donors? Why are you so selfish to keep both your working kidneys when some have none? > > Sorry - you don’t get to take other peoples’ stuff. That includes body parts. Once you are dead you have no rights. Since… you’re dead. And the idea of “Forced donation from living donors” is so over the top it’s both slippery slope and poisoning the well. and a few more. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/48 "2018-06-18T20:41:31Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > IF you don’t mind the hijack or the question, can you elaborate on why you’re not eligible if it isn’t too personal to ask? > > I am slowly dying of liver cirrhosis and I have my first consultation with the liver transplant center at IU hospital in Indianapolis on Friday. I guess I am just more than a casually curious person here as to what things a person may be disqualified for (other than obvious stuff like doing illegal drugs, drinking alcohol, etc). Sure, I have Occular Melanoma that has spread to my liver. It is stable at the moment, but it was made clear that my brand of cancer makes me ineligible for a transplant. I don’t drink or use drugs. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/49 "2018-06-18T21:02:50Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > […] > In Great Britain, [about 1/3rd of the population is registered as donors, but about 2/3rds of families support organ donorship](https://www.statista.com/statistics/519916/organ-donation-rate-united-kingdom-uk/). > > We seem to have a pretty clear pattern that about half the people who support being organ donors are actually willing to put in the work to register it. The current default actually doesn’t fit the will of the supermajority of people in any of these countries. To get that figure down to 1/3rd you have to include people who aren’t allowed to register as an organ donor and people who are removed from the registry. That’s everyone under 18 and everyone with a variety of diseases. In the UK, the number of donations refused **by relatives** is higher than the number of potential donors who aren’t registered donors. Relatives get the last say, not the donor. An example: [https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/news-and-campaigns/news/highest-number-of-organ-transplants-ever-across-uk-but-many-families-still-say-no-to-donation/](https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/news-and-campaigns/news/highest-number-of-organ-transplants-ever-across-uk-but-many-families-still-say-no-to-donation/) I can’t say for sure it’s the same in the other countries you mentioned, but I would be surprised if it isn’t. It seems clear to you because you’ve started from the conclusion and worked backwards. People who are advocating the removal of the need for consent from the donor are almost always misinformed or dishonest. Doing so will not save lots of lives. It might cost a small number of lives. It might save a small number of lives. It will probably have no effect on the number of lives saved. But it definitely, absolutely definitely, will not save lots of lives. It can’t possibly do that because it’s not a significant factor in the number of transplants done. The biggest factor is that someone who is compatible needs to die in hospital on life support and to do so close enough to the person who needs the organ for it to be possible for the surgery to happen in the limited amount of time that the organ can be kept viable for. If you really want to increase the number of transplants done, there are several far more effective approaches that will definitely save lives: 1. Have more people die in hospital on life support while their organs are healthy. This means having more people, preferably younger people, die from injury (preferably head injury) but not immediately, not at the scene. Fatal traffic accidents are the best route to that, although in the USA fatal shootings would come a close second. 1b) Remove all suicide prevention measures and instead encourage people who want to commit suicide to come into a medical facility where they can die as nicely as possible and their organs can be harvested for transplant. That’s even better than murder and accidental death because the donor can probably be persuaded to remain alive a bit longer, long enough for the recipient to travel to the medical facility and be prepped for the surgery. 1. Pay no attention to what living relatives want regarding organ donation. 2. Encourage and heavily fund stem cell research with a view to using it to grow organs for transplant. The first two would very quickly significantly increase the number of transplants done. The 3rd would take longer but if successful it would have a larger effect and improve the quality of transplantation by making it possible in many circumstances to implant a healthy organ grown from the patient’s own cells. That removes the many problems caused by implanting organs from someone else. But those effective options are expensive, politically controversial or both. Removing the need for consent is cheap and can be spun as a politically good thing. The fact that it’s ineffective is less important than to be seen as Doing Something About The Problem. That’s politics - image is more important than effect. I’ll leave you with the words of an expert regarding the proposal to remove the need for consent in the UK: > [@](#): > > Retired kidney transplant surgeon and former head of the UK’s transplant services Prof Chris Rudge says: "The key question is, ‘Will it work? Will it make a difference?’ > > "And if the answer is yes, then that would be very good. But if the answer is no, then I question why we are going down this route. > > "The only evidence I have seen is that it won’t make any difference and it is not the answer to the problem, but there is a risk that it may make things worse. > > "That is my starting point. I am not totally against it, but if I am right, it won’t improve things. > > “There is no good evidence it will increase the number of donors.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/50 "2018-06-18T21:30:35Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > In the UK, the number of donations refused **by relatives** is higher than the number of potential donors who aren’t registered donors. Relatives get the last say, not the donor. > > People who are advocating the removal of the need for consent from the donor are almost always misinformed or dishonest. Doing so will not save lots of lives. It might cost a small number of lives. It might save a small number of lives. It will probably have no effect on the number of lives saved. But it definitely, absolutely definitely, will not save lots of lives. It can’t possibly do that because it’s not a significant factor in the number of transplants done. > 2) Pay no attention to what living relatives want regarding organ donation. We are here talking about the importance of a donors last wishes, so why shoudl those be overridden by a relative? So yeah, if a donor wants his organs donated, they should be. As to your idea that more donors wont save lives, these _cites_ (as opposed to your opinion) differ: > **[Organ Donation Statistics | organdonor.gov](https://www.organdonor.gov/learn/organ-donation-statistics)** > > How many people are waiting for a transplant? Who receives organs, and what organs are most needed? Explore data from the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network.  > **[Commentary: Organ donors save lives, but only slightly more than half of...](https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/opinion/tn-dpt-me-commentary-donations-20180424-story.html)** > > Registering to be an organ donor is one of the most selfless things a person can do. > **[The Power of Organ Donation to Save Lives Through Transplantation](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3675206/)** > **[Facts and Myths about Transplant](https://www.americantransplantfoundation.org/about-transplant/facts-and-myths/)** > > Organ disease is a massive public health issue, and organ transplantation can be a lifesaving treatment option. There are as many people dying per year of organ disease as are on the transplant waiting list currently! What can you do to spread... Yes, it is true that many donors dont die at just the right time and place. So that way to increase that is- \*more donors. \* Thereby increasing the chance those those dying at the right time and place are donors. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/51 "2018-06-18T21:46:02Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I consent (enthusiastically!) to having my organs harvested when I die. I also just recently lost my wallet, and have yet to make a new piece of paper saying “I consent to organ donation” to stick in it. Ergo, according to the government, if I get hit by a bus today, my organs won’t go on to save lives. Oh, please - if you were _serious_ about organ donation it wouldn’t just be a check box on the back of your driver’s license or a card in your wallet. You’d tell your relatives and friends. You give your doctor a signed end-of-life document specifying your wishes. People die without any sort of documentation on them and their relatives still get asked about donation. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Sure, distress is tangible. The correct solution for that is to _educate_ people. Wow. I’d like to see you educate people out of their religious and cultural beliefs - the track record on that isn’t particularly good. > [@](#): > > No! We look into why these people react that way and look for solutions that don’t break down the way the government functions. The organ donation system will not collapse if we stick with our current opt-in policies. > [@](#): > > The question is, what is the better deal for society as a whole? At the moment, the tradeoff you’re buying into is preventing the hypothetical trauma of a hypothetical group of people of unknown size with horribly irrational beliefs and accepting that, because we avoid that trauma, there’s going to be substantially less resources available for life-saving operations with long waiting lists. What if you set up your opt-out system and so many people opt out you wind up with fewer organs than with the previous system? > [@](#): > > You seemed to imply that if we allow for the non-voluntary harvesting of the kidneys of the dead, there’s nothing to stop us from non-voluntarily harvesting the kidneys of the living. And I disputed that. So… what’s to stop that progression? > [@DrDeth](#): > > Once you are dead you have no rights. Since… you’re dead. Yes, but your _relatives_ inherit your stuff. Including your body, since that’s among your possessions in life. That might be why they currently have the final say as to whether or not organs get donated. > [@](#): > > And the idea of “Forced donation from living donors” is so over the top it’s both slippery slope and poisoning the well. and a few more. Why is it over the top? Don’t get me wrong, I am totally opposed to it, but the concept is not unthinkable, that’s why it crops up in horrors stories and movies from time to time, and dystopian SF. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/52 "2018-06-18T21:55:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We are here talking about the importance of a donors last wishes, so why shoudl those be overridden by a relative? > > So yeah, if a donor wants his organs donated, they should be. So why aren’t you advocating that rather than advocating that the need for consent from the donor should be removed? Ignoring what living relatives want would have a far larger effect on the amount of potential transplants done. I do advocate that what living relatives wants should be ignored, but only if the dead person had consented to organ donation when they were alive. Not if their consent was not required. > [@](#): > > As to your idea that more donors wont save lives, these _cites_ (as opposed to your opinion) differ: 1. It’s not my position that more donors won’t save lives. My position is already clear from my previous posts. I would like you to read them before making claims about what my position is, since the claim you have made is not true. 2. The opinions and numbers you approve of are not magically superior just because you call them citations. 3. The webpages that you claim show that more donors would save more lives are completely irrelevant even if they do claim what you say you claim and they are a reliable source **because I am not arguing that more donors wouldn’t save lives** I clicked on the 4th one anyway, as a quick check, and I was not surprised to find that it does not in any way support your position that the need for consent from the donor should be removed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/53 "2018-06-18T23:42:31Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > So why aren’t you advocating that rather than advocating that the need for consent from the donor should be removed? Ignoring what living relatives want would have a far larger effect on the amount of potential transplants done. > > I do advocate that what living relatives wants should be ignored, but only if the dead person had consented to organ donation when they were alive. Not if their consent was not required. > > 1. It’s not my position that more donors won’t save lives. My position is already clear from my previous posts. I would like you to read them before making claims about what my position is, since the claim you have made is not true. > > 2. The opinions and numbers you approve of are not magically superior just because you call them citations. > > 3. The webpages that you claim show that more donors would save more lives are completely irrelevant even if they do claim what you say you claim and they are a reliable source **because I am not arguing that more donors wouldn’t save lives** > > I clicked on the 4th one anyway, as a quick check, and I was not surprised to find that it does not in any way support your position that the need for consent from the donor should be removed. I am. I have no problem with a donor making consent or not making consent. It’s when they dont care enough to check a box, that i think the public good needs to assume they dont care, and thus they are donors. Since- \*they clearly dont care. \* 1. Yes, you did indeed claim that more donors would not save more lives: _"People who are advocating the removal of the need for consent from the donor are almost always misinformed or dishonest. Doing so will not save lots of lives. It might cost a small number of lives. It might save a small number of lives. It will probably have no effect on the number of lives saved. But it definitely, absolutely definitely, will not save lots of lives. It can’t possibly do that because it’s not a significant factor in the number of transplants done. The biggest factor is that someone who is compatible needs to die in hospital on life support and to do so close enough to the person who needs the organ for it to be possible for the surgery to happen in the limited amount of time that the organ can be kept viable for._ \*\*It will probably have no effect on the number of lives saved. \*\* 2. Yes, indeed, cites are superior to a posters opinions. It has always been so here and most everywhere. 3. Yes, you indeed did claim that. No, it just said that more donors would save more lives. Bring in Opt out and that would mean far more donors. More donors= more lives saved. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/54 "2018-06-22T06:29:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I doubt that even if every viable organ was recovered that it would allow all those who could benefit to actually do so. It’s not just that the person has to die, they have to die in a certain and be WITHOUT certain pre-existing conditions. As a general rule, someone who has had cancer or is infected with HIV or hepatitis or a number of other things can’t donate their organs because it would be too risky for the recipient. Generally, donors have to die of a head injury that leaves the rest of the body more or less intact. The intersection of “died of head injury” and “no disqualifying conditions” is not that big a pool of people. Slight hijack, but I wanted to put a plug in here for cornea donation. You can donate your corneas pretty much no matter what you die from. I learned this in college when a friend died of meningitis (just a few years before there was a vaccine), and he could still donate his corneas. Remembering this 11 years later, when my father died of pancreatic cancer, I asked whether he could be a cornea donor, and the answer was “Yes.” So, it might not be as dramatically life-saving as donating a heart or a lung, but to the person who receives those corneas, it’s a huge deal. Anyway, don’t assume that cause of death prevents you from making any donation whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/55 "2018-06-23T00:06:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > […] > > 1. Yes, you did indeed claim that more donors would not save more lives: […] No, I did not. You’re assuming that removing the need for consent would increase the number of donors. In fact, you’re assuming that it would result in “far more” donors. I am not making that assumption because I have not seen any evidence that it would except in countries where the consensual donation rate is very low. You can make all the irrelevant “cites” you like, but it still won’t make your opinion automatically correct. And no, a link to the number of transplants done is not proof that removing the need for consent would increase the number of transplants greatly, significantly or at all. No matter what you call it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/56 "2018-06-23T00:12:46Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > No, I did not. > > You’re assuming that removing the need for consent would increase the number of donors. In fact, you’re assuming that it would result in “far more” donors. > > I am not making that assumption because I have not seen any evidence that it would except in countries where the consensual donation rate is very low. > > You can make all the irrelevant “cites” you like, but it still won’t make your opinion automatically correct. . I gave you cites. You have _nothing._ ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267/57 "2018-06-23T00:13:35Z")
Just to be thorough, I read through all of your “cites”. One isn’t available in Europe. The other 3 **in no way support your opinions or your claims. In fact, they don’t even make any mention of them at all.** If I include some links to opinions on potato farming and lists of the density of different elements, will that make you consider my opinion on the importance of consent correct because I have provided “cites”? If not, why not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-transplantable-organs-are-wasted-each-year/744267.md?page=2)