# How many ways could a device like this work? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 10, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554 "2016-09-10T20:06:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/41 "2016-09-23T14:15:50Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I agree that sloppy chaotic people do relatively more sloppy chaotic things than do more careful and organized people. > > But after that, what’s your point? Your post seems like a bald assertion inviting us to connect 4 more dots leading to some inescapable conclusion. But I don’t know what 4 dots or what inescapable conclusion you’re thinking of. > > Care to enlighten us more plodding methodical types with your complete line of thinking? Perhaps with data on the relative frequency of sloppy chaotic people vs. careful organized people in the population at large and in the folks making these errors. My comment was directed at those posters who said that even diligent responsible people (like those posters) want/need that added layer of protection. Just now much high-tech state mandated protection do prudent responsible people really need? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/42 "2016-09-23T14:22:24Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Nobody would propose that every adult wear a helmet because even intelligent able-bodied respponsible people can fall on their heads. The statistical probability of an accident rises according to factors that are often in correlation with duh. I don’t think that end of the scale is in dispute - stupid people do stupid things. The incidence of accident doesn’t vanish to zero at the smart end of the scale, would be my only point. > [@](#): > > How many mothers do you know who have ever dropped their baby? Things like that happen with spectacular rarity, and with a high probability that the agent has a behavioral pattern of things going wrong. OK, on this, I’m not sure. Dumb people drop things (including things that are babies) more than smart people? Maybe, I guess, but I wouldn’t think intelligence is the most significant factor in this particular category. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/43 "2016-09-23T14:24:16Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My comment was directed at those posters who said that even diligent responsible people (like those posters) want/need that added layer of protection. Just now much high-tech state mandated protection do prudent responsible people really need? Prudent responsible people can still get distracted and make mistakes. Anyone who thinks this could never happen to them because they are too careful is probably deluding themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/44 "2016-09-23T15:26:54Z")
_ **"…if you inadvertently leave Junior in the car…"** _ Huh? How on EARTH would one “inadvertently” leave a child in a car? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/45 "2016-09-23T15:33:37Z")
> [@Me\_Billy](#): > > _ **“…if you inadvertently leave Junior in the car…”** _ > > Huh? > > How on EARTH would one “inadvertently” leave a child in a car? Are you reading anything in this thread? Read the Washington Post article. _Anybody_ can do this. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/46 "2016-09-23T15:37:10Z")
ETA: beaten by **Acsenray**. Not trying to pile on. @ **Me Billy** : Did you bother to read any of this thread and the linked articles??? It happens very frequently across the country. As a percentage of the times kids ride in cars it’s a very, very, very small fraction. But multiplied by the number of such rides nationwide that tiny fraction kills a bunch of kids every year and risks a whole a bunch more every single week. OTOH, **Me Billy** ’s incredulity here pretty well exemplifies the source of problem. Both the problem of folks’ forgetting & killing kids, and the problem of folks demanding silly responses to people inadvertently killing kids. ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/47 "2016-09-23T15:54:58Z")
OK, I read the article. I STILL have no idea how anyone could forget about a child in a car??? So far as “anyone” can do this, not me! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/48 "2016-09-23T15:59:03Z")
> [@Me\_Billy](#): > > OK, I read the article. I STILL have no idea how anyone could forget about a child in a car??? > > So far as “anyone” can do this, not me! Bullshit. You have the same flawed human brain that everyone else has. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/49 "2016-09-23T16:00:24Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > I just saw on the TV news that Tesla is introducing an optional feature that would automatically turn on the vehicle’s AC if the internal temperature reaches a preset level. That doesn’t sound like a very feasible plan—unless it also turns the engine on, the battery would be drained in a matter of minutes. And why is that a problem? A conventional (gasoline powered) car could easily be designed so that it turns on the engine & air conditioner whenever the interior temperature reaches a preset limit. (Though I suppose some other method may be needed to make sure this doesn’t happen in an enclosed garage.) [This article](http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/21/luxury/elon-musk-tesla-hot-car-deaths/) talks about this feature on the Tesla, but also mentions a different fix GM is including in some of their vehicles: > [@](#): > > If a back door is opened before the driver gets in and starts the car, the driver will be reminded, with a warning tone and a text alert on the dashboard to check the backseat after the vehicle is tuned off. That feature is included as standard equipment in the new GMC Acadia SUV. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/50 "2016-09-23T16:08:01Z")
> [@Me\_Billy](#): > > _ **“…if you inadvertently leave Junior in the car…”** _ > > Huh? > > How on EARTH would one “inadvertently” leave a child in a car? Same as you can inadvertently crash a plane into a mountain or inadvertently cut off your arm with a bandsaw. Severity of outcome doesn’t prevent accidents from happening. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/51 "2016-09-23T16:22:21Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > If a back door is opened before the driver gets in and starts the car, the driver will be reminded, with a warning tone and a text alert on the dashboard to check the backseat after the vehicle is tuned off. That feature is included as standard equipment in the new GMC Acadia SUV. : That is probable the best idea so far. It would work for groceries, dry cleaning, anything. It wouldn’t have to just be a baby reminder. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/52 "2016-09-23T16:25:18Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, shit. I never dropped him but I did smack his head into more than one door frame, and once I dropped a fork on him. Guess I got a behavioral pattern. When my nephew was young I put him on my shoulders and gave him a ride around the house. He squealed and laughed until I galloped through a doorway. He’s thirty now and every time he does something stupid, people bring up that horsey ride. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/53 "2016-09-23T16:59:24Z")
Tesla has already found a solution to hot car deaths. > **[New Tesla software to prevent hot car deaths](https://money.cnn.com/2016/09/21/luxury/elon-musk-tesla-hot-car-deaths/)** > > Dozens of kids die each year in hot cars. A new Tesla software feature could help prevent a few of those. > [@](#): > > Tesla’s temperature-control function will automatically keep the temperature below 105 Fahrenheit – 40 centigrade – inside the car by automatically opening vents or turning on the air conditioner as needed, Musk tweeted. The feature will remain on for up to 12 hours after the driver exits the vehicle, a Tesla spokesman said. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/54 "2016-09-23T17:20:35Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Prudent responsible people can still get distracted and make mistakes. Anyone who thinks this could never happen to them because they are too careful is probably deluding themselves. My central thesis is that you can’t tighten all the screws so that something NEVER happens. The law of diminishing returns will start beating you to death in terms of cost, both economic and personal liberty. There is a scale on which some people are so slipshod, they display all kinds of behavioral and lifestyle dysfunctions, and low education and income are often an effect (not a cause) of that. People who forget babies in cars are highly likely to have gravitated into this visible demographic. Outliers do not prove that false. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/55 "2016-09-23T18:33:19Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My central thesis is that you can’t tighten all the screws so that something NEVER happens. You might have something there. Secure baby to the car seat with a couple deck screws and there’s no way to forget baby in the car, what with all the screaming. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/56 "2016-09-23T18:34:44Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My central thesis is that you can’t tighten all the screws so that something NEVER happens. The law of diminishing returns will start beating you to death in terms of cost, both economic and personal liberty. And is your thesis that we have already reached that point? Based on what data about economics, technology, and probability? > [@](#): > > There is a scale on which some people are so slipshod, they display all kinds of behavioral and lifestyle dysfunctions, and low education and income are often an effect (not a cause) of that. People who forget babies in cars are highly likely to have gravitated into this visible demographic. Outliers do not prove that false. Where is your data that the people who leave their kids in cars who are not slipshod, poorly educated, poor, and without behavioral and lifestyle functions are “outliers”? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/57 "2016-09-23T19:07:01Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My central thesis is that you can’t tighten all the screws so that something NEVER happens. The law of diminishing returns will start beating you to death in terms of cost, both economic and personal liberty. I agree with you entirely on this point. There is nothing to be done - solutions are either unacceptable to the majority of people upon whom they would be needlessly imposed, or are expensive or difficult. > [@](#): > > There is a scale on which some people are so slipshod, they display all kinds of behavioral and lifestyle dysfunctions, and low education and income are often an effect (not a cause) of that. People who forget babies in cars are highly likely to have gravitated into this visible demographic. Outliers do not prove that false. I’m not so sure I agree on this point - but evidence in the form of statistics would be interesting. It is my general impression (based only on vague memories of anecdotes, so not at all scientific) that these cases seem to include stories of relatively intelligent or successful businespeople who accidentally leave their kid in the car because of some small watershed moment in their daily routine. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/58 "2016-09-25T14:26:17Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My central thesis is that you can’t tighten all the screws so that something NEVER happens. The law of diminishing returns will start beating you to death in terms of cost, both economic and personal liberty. I have to broadly disagree, we are reaching the point with all new cars where the sensors required to put a solution in place are there already, it is merely a software change not a massively expensive hardware re-think. Can we all think up a scenario that defeats these safeguards? certainly, but we can reduce the chances of this happening by orders of magnitude even if we can’t eradicate the possibility entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554/59 "2016-09-25T14:28:20Z")
> [@Me\_Billy](#): > > OK, I read the article. I STILL have no idea how anyone could forget about a child in a car??? > > So far as “anyone” can do this, not me! The fact that you think it couldn’t be you actually makes you a greater risk. I can explain to you why that is if you like but I’m sure someone so sharp and aware can work it out for themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-ways-could-a-device-like-this-work/765554.md?page=2)