# How many words can a song have before it is no longer "instrumental"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935 "2016-05-04T19:40:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/1 "2016-05-04T19:40:42Z")
I would have thought “one” was the correct answer. Apparently not. I can sort of grant an exception to _Tequila_. Maybe exclude the “hey” in\* Rock and Roll part 2\* as being a sound rather than a lyric. But is _The Hustle_ really instrumental? Sure it has only four words (Do. The. Hustle. It. Maybe five if you count the “oooh”.), but they’re repeated a ton. Opinions? How many other so-called instrumentals with words are there out there? Should there be a limit? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/2 "2016-05-04T19:49:35Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I would have thought “one” was the correct answer. Apparently not. > > I can sort of grant an exception to _Tequila_. Maybe exclude the “hey” in\* Rock and Roll part 2\* as being a sound rather than a lyric. But is _The Hustle_ really instrumental? Sure it has only four words (Do. The. Hustle. It. Maybe five if you count the “oooh”.), but they’re repeated a ton. > > Opinions? How many other so-called instrumentals with words are there out there? Should there be a limit? You were on the right track with your initial comments but lacked specificity: no more than one syllable or it’s a lyric, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/3 "2016-05-04T19:55:55Z")
Hmm…Pink Floyd’s _One of These Days_ has twelve words, but I might still describe it as an instrumental. That’s it, though! Thirteen words, now _that_ would be crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/4 "2016-05-04T20:39:38Z")
Limbo, by Rush is an instrumental. However, it has the sample, “Whatever happened to my Transylvania Twist” in the a time or two. But it’s definitely listed on their catalog as an instrumental. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/5 "2016-05-04T21:06:11Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > Hmm…Pink Floyd’s _One of These Days_ has twelve words, but I might still describe it as an instrumental. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Limbo, by Rush is an instrumental. However, it has the sample, “Whatever happened to my Transylvania Twist” in the a time or two. But it’s definitely listed on their catalog as an instrumental. I might agree. So what’s the difference? Because these two are one-shots? One line added to an otherwise word-free song? I think The Hustle is not, likewise, Picking Up the Pieces is not. And I have no idea what to do with Jungle Fever! ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/6 "2016-05-04T21:19:43Z")
Hahahahaha! Wipeout! Definitely an [instrumental.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p13yZAjhU0M) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/7 "2016-05-04T21:21:13Z")
My initial call is one word, just so “Tequila” makes the cut. But if I do that, then Dave Brubeck’s “Unsquare Dance” misses the mark because of Joe Morello’s words at the end. Or do we not count “incidental” verbiage? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/8 "2016-05-04T21:39:12Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > My initial call is one word, just so “Tequila” makes the cut. But if I do that, then Dave Brubeck’s “Unsquare Dance” misses the mark because of Joe Morello’s words at the end. Or do we not count “incidental” verbiage? I wouldn’t count incidental, obviously. But what does he say at the end? I never noticed any words, and listening to it now, I can barely hear anything but “(laugh) yeah.” ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/9 "2016-05-04T21:47:06Z")
Ideally, an instrumental should have no vocalizations at all. However, the real world is rarely ideal. For instance, the Renaissance songs [“Prologue”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41H8smI0dJI) and [“Rajah Khan”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFcCRJddss) heavily feature Annie Haslam singing “Doo, doo, doo” and other nonsense vocals. Should those count as instrumentals? If so, by that rubric of ignoring nonsense vocals, wouldn’t songs like “Tutti Frutti” and “Rubber Biscuit” also be instrumental? Pink Floyd’s “One of These Days” gets a pass, sort of, because its single vocal line is _spoken,_ not sung. That’s also the reason why I consider Rush’s “2112: Grand Finale” to be instrumental, since the only vocals are spoken, whereas “2112: Overture” is clearly NOT instrumental (no matter what Wikipedia says) because Geddy Lee very clearly SINGS the final line, _“And the meek shall inherit the earth.”_ But then again, this rule treads very close to declaring that every rap song is also instrumental… ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/10 "2016-05-04T21:48:32Z")
Ah, this takes me back! When Ottorino Respighi composed “The Pines of Rome,” one of the effects in the orchestra was a recording of the song of a nightingale, played on a gramophone. There were great debates at the time, arguing that the work was no longer truly “symphonic.” My question would be: are the “vocals” in the examples given here recorded/sampled, or does one of the band members actually say/sing the word or line? If it comes from a sampler machine, then that, itself, is kind of an “instrument.” e.g., a piece with “singing” that comes from a synthesizer, not a real voice: I’d be comfortable with an argument that the piece is “instrumental” and not “vocal.” ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/11 "2016-05-04T21:52:40Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > Hahahahaha! Wipeout! > > Definitely an [instrumental.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p13yZAjhU0M) Yes, I think it can argued that, even though it is on the recording, it is vocalized before the tune, proper, starts. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/12 "2016-05-04T22:09:37Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I think The Hustle is not I think it is, in spirit: it’s fundamentally an instrumental, with a few words spoken on top of it. It certainly doesn’t consist of lyrics sung to a particular melody. Ditto “[One Step Beyond](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-uyWAe0NhQ).” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/13 "2016-05-04T22:11:51Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I wouldn’t count incidental, obviously. But what does he say at the end? I never noticed any words, and listening to it now, I can barely hear anything but “(laugh) yeah.” Words is words. 😛 But it made you listen to it again, which is a good thing in its own right. Right? To address \*\*buddha\_david’s \*\*point: Coloratura is a vocal style itself. “Prologue” and “Rajah Khan” would definitely fit into that categorization. It would be using the human voice as a musical instrument as opposed to delivering some semantic content with it through lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![journeyman\_southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5e9695/32.png) [@journeyman\_southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/journeyman_southpaw)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/14 "2016-05-04T22:17:53Z")
At 2:44 of [Scorpions - Coast To Coast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aULKoWtpuds), there’s what sounds to me to be somebody exhaling. Instrumental or not? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/15 "2016-05-04T22:39:29Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Coloratura is a vocal style itself. Is that what Floyd’s _Great Gig in the Sky_ is? Because it has a lot of singing, but no actual words. Except, of course, “I never said I was afraid of dying…” That was spoken. instrumental still? ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/16 "2016-05-04T22:53:46Z")
I feel pretty forgiving on the number of words allowed in an instrumental - my personal playlist of instrumental rock includes several that violate just about any word-count rule but still fit it for me. For me, a vocal song carries most of the varation and meaning in the voices and the instruments are usually prominent only in the intro and the bridge. If you make the instruments carry the song and add voices as backup, I’ll be happy calling it instrumental. Two examples: [Away](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEJJxPgwkzA)by Devin Townsend, features about [forty words](http://www.metrolyrics.com/away-lyrics-devin-townsend.html) in a couple of points, but that’s in an 8-minute song and the voices are muted. And then there’s Nightwish’s instrumental version of their album Dark Passion Play which takes out the main vocal tracks, but includes the backup chorus. (For example, from [Master Passion Greed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv3TSJe_U08) at about 1:25 and 2:15). ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/17 "2016-05-04T23:20:19Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Is that what Floyd’s _Great Gig in the Sky_ is? Because it has a lot of singing, but no actual words. Coloratura actually means a florid style of opera singing with a lot of fancy moves. The term for a musical piece with wordless vocals is [vocalise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_warm_up#Vocalise). (Not to be confused with vocalese, which means recreating an originally improvised jazz solo as a song \*with \*words.) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/18 "2016-05-04T23:50:20Z")
Pink Floyd’s “Atom Heart Mother” is over 20 minutes, but has one spoken line “Silence in the Studio.” I think everyone would agree it’s an instrumental. And what about Beethoven’s ninth? Symphonies are considered instrumentals and the first three movements (and much of the fourth) have no words. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/19 "2016-05-05T00:01:19Z")
Well what about “ **Flying** ”? It is the only instrumental listing from the Beatles’ catalog and though there are no words, the lads are definitely singing the main riff. [link](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x228y3p_the-beatles-flying-magical-mystery-tour-film-1967_music) ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935/20 "2016-05-05T00:58:19Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Limbo, by Rush is an instrumental. However, it has the sample, “Whatever happened to my Transylvania Twist” in the a time or two. But it’s definitely listed on their catalog as an instrumental. Malignant Narcissism from 2007’s ‘Snakes & Arrows’ is similar. There’s a sample from Team America: World Police about halfway through which says “Usually a case of malignant narcissism is brought on during childhood.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-words-can-a-song-have-before-it-is-no-longer-instrumental/753935.md?page=2)