# How Many Zeros in a Row are Possible in Pi? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** science-math\ **Created:** [September 21, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562 "2024-09-21T17:12:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/221 "2024-10-05T13:35:35Z")
If I may interject for a moment, for the benefit of less math-savvy people out there: There are many kinds of numbers used in mathematics. When you were learning math, you first learned about the counting numbers, then extended that to the integers (which include negative numbers), then extended that again to the rational numbers (fractions), and then to the real numbers (which include irrational numbers like pi). In high school, you might have seen numbers extended to the complex numbers (which include imaginary numbers). Complex numbers are enough to deal with almost all real-world situations, so most folks never learn anything beyond that, but there are actually many, many other possible ways of extending the concept of “number”, some of which don’t even have any practical applications and which mathematicians just made up for fun. Nonstandard integers and hyperreal numbers and so on, that folks have been talking about for the past few posts, are examples of that: Extensions of the number system that mathematicians made up just for fun. And while, sometimes, something mathematicians make up just for fun turns out to have some practical purpose somewhere, so far as I know that’s never happened yet for hyperreals and nonstandards. ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/222 "2024-10-05T13:50:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And while, sometimes, something mathematicians make up just for fun turns out to have some practical purpose somewhere, so far as I know that’s never happened yet for hyperreals and nonstandards. Except that hyperreals weren’t made up just for fun, they were created to justify Newton’s original approach to calculus using infinitesimals. They provide another foundation for calculus—nonstandard analysis—that, though it hasn’t caught on completely at the college level, does have a following. There are calculus textbooks available using infinitesimals as their foundation in place of limits, now that we know it can be done rigorously. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/223 "2024-10-05T16:51:13Z")
Mathematicians have been struggling to deal with the implications of infinity, infinitesimal and limits probably as far back as the formulation of the area of a circle as half it’s circumference times its radius; the area being the limit of a hypothetically infinite number of infinitely narrow triangles. To which someone probably immediately objected by saying “But wouldn’t that be infinitesimally less than the full circumference?”. The quest for **rigor** in mathematics has led to some very strange places. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/224 "2024-10-05T17:53:16Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Mathematicians have been struggling to deal with the implications of infinity, infinitesimal and limits probably as far back as the formulation of the area of a circle as half it’s circumference times its radius; the area being the limit of a hypothetically infinite number of infinitely narrow triangles. To which someone probably immediately objected by saying “But wouldn’t that be infinitesimally less than the full circumference?”. So far as I know, that result originated with Archimedes, and he did handle it rigorously, using a sort of proto-limit. Basically, he used inscribed polygons to argue that any amount greater than 1/2 rC was greater than the area, and then he used circumscribed polygons to argue that any amount less than 1/2 rC was less than the area. ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/225 "2024-10-05T18:32:10Z")
Yes, the method of exhaustion, a name that many calculus students would appreciate. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/226 "2024-10-05T19:12:50Z")
> [@Topologist](#): > > Except that hyperreals weren’t made up just for fun Sometimes, in math, “for fun”, “to solve a problem”, and “in total desperation” have equivalent meanings. ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/227 "2024-10-05T22:42:34Z")
I’m sure Robinson had fun doing it, but it wasn’t _just_ for fun. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/228 "2024-10-09T21:49:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And while, sometimes, something mathematicians make up just for fun turns out to have some practical purpose somewhere, so far as I know that’s never happened yet for hyperreals and nonstandards. Poor Hardy liked to think that his mathematics was pure as the driven snow, with no conceivable applications - he contributed to physics, biology and to computer science considerably ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2024, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/229 "2024-10-09T21:57:21Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Poor Hardy liked to think that his mathematics was pure as the driven snow > **[Purity](https://xkcd.com/435/)** > > On the other hand, physicists like to say physics is to math as sex is to masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2024, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/230 "2024-10-10T00:43:44Z")
Hardy’s mathematical work was important to the development of public key cryptography, which is most of modern (i.e., post 1970) cryotography. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/231 "2024-10-10T01:50:56Z")
Yep. And that’s based on the work Hardy thought was most unsulliable ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2024, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/232 "2024-10-10T05:37:16Z")
Wiki article on G.H. Hardy > **[G. H. Hardy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._H._Hardy)** > > Godfrey Harold Hardy FRS (7 February 1877 – 1 December 1947) was an English mathematician, known for his achievements in number theory and mathematical analysis. In biology, he is known for the Hardy–Weinberg principle, a basic principle of population genetics. > G. H. Hardy is usually known by those outside the field of mathematics for his 1940 essay A Mathematician's Apology, often considered one of the best insights into the mind of a working mathematician written for the layperson. > Startin... ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2024, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/233 "2024-10-10T07:31:06Z")
This now seems appropriate > **[Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Apply](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/apply)** > > Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Apply ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2024, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/234 "2024-10-10T08:31:13Z")
I think it is understandable, especially during wartime, to worry about one’s work being adapted to make H-bombs (or any military applications), or by the GCSQ, even if one does not work for them or accept any funding from them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/235 "2024-10-12T18:58:56Z")
Sure, but that’s not what’s motivating mathematicians like Hardy or Gauss. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/236 "2024-10-12T19:11:34Z")
Or the physicists. Feynman said: “Physics is like sex. It may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” Though the physicists don’t seem to be actively miffed that their results have useful applications. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/237 "2024-10-13T00:02:55Z")
Note that Feynman did not have a problem working on the Manhattan Project, while Hardy took pains to emphasise (via wishful thinking) that “real” mathematics at least does no harm and has no effects on war. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/238 "2024-10-13T16:37:01Z")
Feynman had a lot of regrets afterwards - in his mind he had signed up to stop Hitler and in retrospect wished he had stopped his efforts after V-E Day ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/239 "2024-10-13T21:01:57Z")
Granted, though that’s a little different than being appalled that one’s work has _any_ practical application. Wasn’t a case where he worked on some nuclear physics problem for its standalone interest and then got worked up when it was used for a bomb. He was working on the bomb the whole time. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562/240 "2024-10-13T21:16:08Z")
Agreed [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-zeros-in-a-row-are-possible-in-pi/1007562.md?page=13)