# How May I Flee and Avoid Extradition to the United States? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502 "2019-08-11T13:28:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/1 "2019-08-11T13:28:33Z")
I do not need the answer fast. The Epstein case brought this to mind. Once upon a time Israel would not extradite a Jew. This is no longer true. In the past, Brazil would not extradite the father of a child born in Brazil. Is this still true. Japan is often reluctant to extradite its own nationals. Some have hidden in Cuba for years. If you had a lot of money, where could you hide? Is there a place to run for those on a fixed income? ---
**Author:** ![txjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@txjim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txjim)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/2 "2019-08-11T13:50:44Z")
May need to define the crime, impacts whether a country will extradite you. Roman Polanski has been pretty comfortable in France since his departure from the US. ---
**Author:** ![Nansbread1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Nansbread1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nansbread1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/3 "2019-08-11T13:56:13Z")
Three steps to fulfil 1. flee. If you are free, aware of impending arrest and sufficiently unknown and crime of low calibre (airport notices not circulated) then you could flee easily using your own id. If high newsworthy crime then to avoid detection at airports or ports you will have to invest in fake documents 2. Avoid detection in new country. You are safe until arrested. If you commit another crime or try to travel even after decades, you could be caught 3. If detected. Then use all your money to hire the best lawyers to avoid deportation. Thats all there is to it. You will be a nervous wreck at all3 stages. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/4 "2019-08-11T14:36:06Z")
Many places refuse extradition of people who face the death penalty at home. I think that includes every country in Europe. So what you do is, first you flee to Texas to rape a white girl and/or kill a few people there; hop on the first plane to Florence to enjoy _la dolce vita_ then write “I totally did it and I’d do it again for a dollar ! And btw BBQ SUCKS !” to the newspapers & cops to make sure they convict you to fry. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/5 "2019-08-11T14:45:14Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Many places refuse extradition of people who face the death penalty at home. I think that includes every country in Europe. > So what you do is, first you flee to Texas to rape a white girl and/or kill a few people there; hop on the first plane to Florence to enjoy _la dolce vita_ then write “I totally did it and I’d do it again for a dollar ! And btw BBQ SUCKS !” to the newspapers & cops to make sure they convict you to fry. Many jurisdictions will happily waive the possibility of capital punishment to get fugitives back. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/6 "2019-08-11T14:58:56Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Many jurisdictions will happily waive the possibility of capital punishment to get fugitives back. Yes, but \*Texas \*? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Twit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpha_twit/32/265_2.png) [@Alpha\_Twit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpha_Twit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/7 "2019-08-11T15:11:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yes, but \*Texas \*? 😃 Absolutely, just remember, you don’t need a needle in the arm to have an execution. All you need is a guard that’s suddenly just _fascinated_ with the sports section in the newspaper while the powers that be do what they believe needs to be done. Much simpler and faster with no pesky appeals to spoil their plans. Tell me I’m wrong. I dare you. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/8 "2019-08-11T16:26:44Z")
There are many countries with whom the U.S. has no extradition treaties, including Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia. . . [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties) has a list of countries that extradite to the U.S., along with a map. That doesn’t mean these countries won’t deport you for some other reason. You could be deported for not having a valid visa, for instance. To avoid this, you could establish legal residence in one of these countries before committing the crime in the U.S., or you could run to a country that has poor law enforcement (possibly a failed state). Somalia, for example, has no extradition treaty with the U.S., and has such a weak government that they would probably never do anything about you living there illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/9 "2019-08-11T19:02:10Z")
Ira Einhorn comes to mind. > **[Ira Einhorn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Einhorn)** > > Ira Samuel Einhorn (May 15, 1940 – April 3, 2020), known as "The Unicorn Killer", was an American convicted murderer and environmental activist. He was convicted of murdering his ex-girlfriend, Holly Maddux. On September 9, 1977, Maddux disappeared following a trip to collect her belongings from the apartment she and Einhorn had shared in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Eighteen months later, police found her partially mummified body in a trunk in Einhorn's closet. > After his arrest, Einhorn fled t... Murdered his ex-girlfriend and fled to France, he was convicted _in absentia_ and French authorities were worried he’d be sentenced to death if extradited. He hid in France for 34 years before Pennsylvania passed a law allowing a person to be re-tried if their initial trial occurred without their involvement . He was then extradited, re-tried, convicted, and sentenced to life imprisonment. So it didn’t work forever but he escaped justice for more than three decades at least. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/10 "2019-08-11T19:20:03Z")
> [@txjim](#): > > May need to define the crime, impacts whether a country will extradite you. Roman Polanski has been pretty comfortable in France since his departure from the US. This has nothing to do with his alleged crime and everything to do with the fact that Polanski is a French citizen. France doesn’t allow its own citizens to be extradited, period. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/11 "2019-08-11T19:26:24Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > Three steps to fulfil > > […] > > Thats all there is to it. You will be a nervous wreck at all3 stages. I think you’re rather missing the point of the OP, which is that there are certain countries where you are _not_, in fact, in danger of arrest and extradition, at least if you meet certain requirements. I doubt Ronnie Biggs was much of a nervous wreck in Brazil, where he was immune from extradition by dint of his Brazilian child. Or at least, he had no reason to be afraid of the state—as it turned out, some private citizens from the UK did once attempt an extrajudicial extradition (read: kidnapping). ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/12 "2019-08-11T19:51:34Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > France doesn’t allow its own citizens to be extradited, period. False. It certainly allows it to other European Union members: > **[European Arrest Warrant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Arrest_Warrant)** > > The European Arrest Warrant (EAW) is an arrest warrant valid throughout all member states of the European Union (EU). Once issued, it requires another member state to arrest and transfer a criminal suspect or sentenced person to the issuing state so that the person can be put on trial or complete a detention period. It is a simplified cross-border judicial surrender method, and has replaced the lengthy extradition procedures that used to exist between member states. The EAW has been in force si... ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/13 "2019-08-11T21:55:14Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Somalia, for example, has no extradition treaty with the U.S., and has such a weak government that they would probably never do anything about you living there illegally. But then the US government would have fewer qualms about running roughshod over the sovereign rights of a failed state. Also, a relatively weak government (and we ARE talking about a failed state here) would likely be easier to coerce by, say, withholding aid and assistance. So, depending on the crime (if it’s a particularly serious one or just happens to draw a lot of publicity), a failed state might not be so secure. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/14 "2019-08-11T22:03:33Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > But then the US government would have fewer qualms about running roughshod over the sovereign rights of a failed state. Also, a relatively weak government (and we ARE talking about a failed state here) would likely be easier to coerce by, say, withholding aid and assistance. So, depending on the crime (if it’s a particularly serious one or just happens to draw a lot of publicity), a failed state might not be so secure. I don’t think the U.S. would invade Somalia in order to catch one fugitive, unless it’s someone like Edward Snowden. As far as I know, Somalia gets no aid from the U.S. When it comes to imposing sanctions, there’s little the U.S. could do to Somalia that it hasn’t already done to itself. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/15 "2019-08-11T22:03:46Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So what you do is, first you flee to Texas to rape a white girl and/or kill a few people there; hop on the first plane to Florence to enjoy _la dolce vita_ then write “I totally did it and I’d do it again for a dollar ! And btw BBQ SUCKS !” to the newspapers & cops to make sure they convict you to fry. > [@Kobal2](#): > > Yes, but \*Texas \*? 😃 > [@Alpha\_Twit](#): > > Absolutely, just remember, you don’t need a needle in the arm to have an execution. All you need is a guard that’s suddenly just _fascinated_ with the sports section in the newspaper while the powers that be do what they believe needs to be done. Much simpler and faster with no pesky appeals to spoil their plans. > > Tell me I’m wrong. I dare you. **Moderating** I know this is mostly joking, but lets stay away from political commentary. Also, while this does involve discussion of how the law might be evaded, I assume the OP and other participants are not themselves planning to leave the US. However, please keep the discussion hypothetical. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/16 "2019-08-11T22:43:30Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > I don’t think the U.S. would invade Somalia in order to catch one fugitive, unless it’s someone like Edward Snowden. Invade, no. Task one of the local in country CIA peeps to engage a few locals for a kidnapping…oh yes. ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Twit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpha_twit/32/265_2.png) [@Alpha\_Twit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpha_Twit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/17 "2019-08-11T23:00:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderating** > > I know this is mostly joking, but lets stay away from political commentary. Fair point, your polite suggestion is welcomed. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/18 "2019-08-11T23:02:40Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > False. It certainly allows it to other European Union members: > [European Arrest Warrant - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Arrest_Warrant) No, as the Wikipedia article says, a country can refuse to extradite one of its own citizens if it is prepared to prosecute the citizen itself. That’s what France does, conduct the trial in its own courts. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/19 "2019-08-12T02:06:21Z")
Please note, even if a country doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the US, they can sell choose to extradite you. They just can’t be compelled by treaty. Less of a risk in North Korea, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/20 "2019-08-12T02:21:40Z")
IIRC, in athe past, Israel wasn’t adverse to deporting Jews, just Jews who exercised the Right of Return. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502.md?page=2)