# How May I Flee and Avoid Extradition to the United States? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502 "2019-08-11T13:28:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/21 "2019-08-12T02:32:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > IIRC, in athe past, Israel wasn’t adverse to deporting Jews, just Jews who exercised the Right of Return. [Meyer Lansky](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Lansky) attempted to invoke the Law of Return to seek Israeli citizenship, but was denied on the grounds of a criminal past. He wasn’t technically extradited to the US, but he was deported there and the US prosecuted him. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/22 "2019-08-12T06:09:05Z")
Also, generally, for many countries the crime also has to be a crime in the country that is extraditing you. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/23 "2019-08-12T07:05:50Z")
The shortest answer is: flee somewhere that will allow you to stay there indefinitely and that has no extradition agreement with the U.S. Particulars will vary based on circumstance. For example the Ira Einhorn and Roman Polanski options require having citizenship in another country. The big thing to keep in mind is escaping the United States and avoiding extradition is only half the battle. Many countries lack extradition treaties with US, however that doesn’t mean those countries are keen to have you as a guest. For example if you fled to Russia on a murder warrant, assuming you entered the country legally, your stay in Russia is time limited. They don’t just allow random non-Russian citizens with American nationality to live in their country indefinitely. If they knew you were a fugitive murderer they would in fact probably not want you to remain in the country on whatever visa you had entered. So while they have no formal extradition agreement, just like any country they can deport foreigners in accordance with their own laws/policies. Under international law they cannot just deport you to a random country, if you’re an American they will deport you to the US and you’d likely be promptly arrested. Someone like Ed Snowden isn’t just benefiting from the lack of extradition treaty, but also that the government of Russia has allowed him, a non-national permission to reside there indefinitely. A grant unlikely to be extended to “undesirable” common criminals. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/24 "2019-08-12T07:49:38Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Someone like Ed Snowden isn’t just benefiting from the lack of extradition treaty, but also that the government of Russia has allowed him, a non-national permission to reside there indefinitely. A grant unlikely to be extended to “undesirable” common criminals. Nitpick: Snowden has not been allowed to stay in Russia indefinitely. Russia granted him a visa for temporary residence as an asylee, and like all other visas, it is time-limited and needs to be (and has been) periodically renewed. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/25 "2019-08-12T08:01:18Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > No, as the Wikipedia article says, a country can refuse to extradite one of its own citizens if it is prepared to prosecute the citizen itself. That’s what France does, conduct the trial in its own courts. Well, technically **PastTense** is right. France does usually refuse extradition (including European Arrest Warrants) for its own citizens on the grounds that it prefers to try them locally. However, there was at least one high-profile case where France acceded to an EAW. A Web search turned up the case of Mehdi Nemmouche, the shooter of the Jewish Museum in Brussels, who was extradited from France to Belgium in 2014. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/26 "2019-08-12T13:52:51Z")
The issue never was tested in the French courts, though, because he agreed to the extradition to Belgium: [Mehdi Nemmouche: Arrestation](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehdi_Nemmouche#Arrestation) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/27 "2019-08-12T14:27:14Z")
Oh, how interesting. I wonder why he did that. Maybe he thought it would be preferable to serve time in a Belgian prison than a French one? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/28 "2019-08-12T15:06:08Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Nitpick: Snowden has not been allowed to stay in Russia indefinitely. Russia granted him a visa for temporary residence as an asylee, and like all other visas, it is time-limited and needs to be (and has been) periodically renewed. You’re picking a nit that is not there–I didn’t say they gave him Russian citizenship or permanent residency, only that he has been allowed to stay there indefinitely. A claim that is true as of now and shows no immediate indicators of changing. ---
**Author:** ![Dana\_Scully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Dana\_Scully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dana_Scully)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/29 "2019-08-12T15:06:15Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I do not need the answer fast. > > The Epstein case brought this to mind. Once upon a time Israel would not extradite a Jew. This is no longer true. In the past, Brazil would not extradite the father of a child born in Brazil. Is this still true. Japan is often reluctant to extradite its own nationals. Some have hidden in Cuba for years. > > If you had a lot of money, where could you hide? Is there a place to run for those on a fixed income? even if I knew, I wouldn’t post it on a message board that anyone can read. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/30 "2019-08-12T17:17:25Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > You’re picking a nit that is not there–I didn’t say they gave him Russian citizenship or permanent residency, only that he has been allowed to stay there indefinitely. A claim that is true as of now and shows no immediate indicators of changing. Then I submit that you have a rather different notion of “indefinitely” than most people. As far as the Russian authorities are concerned, he has been given a specific date upon which his right to stay ceases. At or before that time, he must either leave the country or request permission to stay longer. ---
**Author:** ![bizerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/31 "2019-08-13T14:44:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Many places refuse extradition of people who face the death penalty at home. … I was watching one of those true-crime stories on TV about 20 years ago. IIRC, the murder was committed in California and the fellow fled to Ontario who refused to extradite because a conviction in CA could possibly lead to execution. Ontario changed its mind when California threatened to announce that all murderers should flee to Ontario. It was more subtle than that, but Ontario got the message. I do not recall whether the death penalty was given at his trial back in CA. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/32 "2019-08-13T15:07:17Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Then I submit that you have a rather different notion of “indefinitely” than most people. As far as the Russian authorities are concerned, he has been given a specific date upon which his right to stay ceases. At or before that time, he must either leave the country or request permission to stay longer. I mean unless you’ve been living with your head in the sand; Snowden is in Russia as personal gift of its President, who has spoken on the issue directly to the global press. Russia’s legal mechanisms for allowing it are not meaningful, it is Putin’s opinion and position on the matter. He is allowed to remain in Russia as long as Putin lets him, which since Putin has given no firm indication he plans to deport him any time soon, is a term indefinite in duration. Russia is not a laws based society, the date on whatever legal document he has, has no bearings on reality. He could be sent home tomorrow, or he could be allowed to stay 20 years beyond that date. It’s entirely up to political will of Russian leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/33 "2019-08-13T15:08:10Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > I was watching one of those true-crime stories on TV about 20 years ago. IIRC, the murder was committed in California and the fellow fled to Ontario who refused to extradite because a conviction in CA could possibly lead to execution. . . Could it have been [Charles Ng](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ng)? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/34 "2019-08-13T20:02:09Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Could it have been [Charles Ng](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ng)? > [@bizerta](#): > > I was watching one of those true-crime stories on TV about 20 years ago. IIRC, the murder was committed in California and the fellow fled to Ontario who refused to extradite because a conviction in CA could possibly lead to execution. Ontario changed its mind when California threatened to announce that all murderers should flee to Ontario. It was more subtle than that, but Ontario got the message. I do not recall whether the death penalty was given at his trial back in CA. As I recall, that was Alberta not Ontario. He was caught shoplifting at which point he shot the security guard while trying to escape. Ironic because the initial murders in California were discovered when he was caught shop lifting. Canada (not the province) declined to deport because California would not take the death penalty off the table. In the end, California said “fine - you can have a psycho mass murderer roaming your streets when his current shooting sentence is over.” Eventually Canada saw the wisdom of allowing Ng to be deported. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/35 "2019-08-13T20:27:55Z")
nm;. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/36 "2019-08-13T21:38:44Z")
Central African Republic, Chad, Mainland China, Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Djibouti, Equitorial Guinea, Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, and Serbia do not have extradition treaties in force with the United States. Any request for extradition would be done as a separate diplomatic effort, and could be decades long in process. Movement between and among those countries, if accompanied with sufficient bribe money would delay the procedure each time. It is worth noting that the motives of the governments of those countries might not be uniformly in line with your personal preferences, either originally, or continuing into the future. Tris * * * Nice place to escape to, but I wouldn’t want to live there. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/37 "2019-08-14T11:58:27Z")
My wife’s classmate in university is a police officer in Taiwan. He has worked in their international division and one of his responsibilities included retrieving Taiwanese who had fled to countries which didn’t have extradition treaties with Taiwan. The suspect would be held by the host country. Acting as a Taiwanese official, he would seize their passport. Without a passport, the host country would deport the suspect to Taiwan, and he would accompany them on the flight. Once they entered Taiwan territory, he would then officially arrest them. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/38 "2019-08-14T12:10:12Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > My wife’s classmate in university is a police officer in Taiwan. He has worked in their international division and one of his responsibilities included retrieving Taiwanese who had fled to countries which didn’t have extradition treaties with Taiwan. > > The suspect would be held by the host country. Acting as a Taiwanese official, he would seize their passport. Without a passport, the host country would deport the suspect to Taiwan, and he would accompany them on the flight. Once they entered Taiwan territory, he would then officially arrest them. Yep, fleeing isn’t as easy as it looks, particularly if the alleged crimes are of a violent or sexual nature and deemed credible by host country officials. My WAG is that anyone who wants to evade authorities would need to go to a developing country with comparatively weak bureaucracy, such as in parts of Africa, Central America, the former Soviet Union, or parts of South and Southeast Asia (there’s always North Korea). Local authorities might not care, and even if they do, they might not be able to find you right away, as you wouldn’t necessarily be a high priority as long as you don’t irritate locals, can hold down a job, and stay out of legal trouble in the host country. However, said fugitive won’t necessarily have an easy experience, as many of these countries have harsh conditions, and some might even be in a state of civil war. They could become victims of violent crime themselves and there would be no recourse - what are ya gonna do, complain to your embassy, lol? Don’t expect good medical care, air conditioned apartments, or cable TV. The conditions might be unsanitary and medical care might be poor. If it’s small crime, might be just easier to hire a lawyer and negotiate a light sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/39 "2019-08-14T14:48:50Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > . . . Southeast Asia (there’s always North Korea). . . First North Korea isn’t in Southeast Asia. Second, and more important, an American who enters North Korea without permission will almost certainly be thrown into prison. Remember what happened to Euna Lee and Laura Ling? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502/40 "2019-08-14T17:30:54Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > First North Korea isn’t in Southeast Asia. Second, and more important, an American who enters North Korea without permission will almost certainly be thrown into prison. Remember what happened to Euna Lee and Laura Ling? Understood - the parentheses were my lazy attempt at a humorous afterthought but I shouldn’t have put it right after mentioning SE Asia. I don’t disagree that North Korea is probably a bad idea for a multitude of reasons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-may-i-flee-and-avoid-extradition-to-the-united-states/838502.md?page=3)