# How might the Electric Chair be modernized? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 24, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152 "2014-05-24T04:43:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Twit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpha_twit/32/265_2.png) [@Alpha\_Twit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpha_Twit)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/21 "2014-05-24T14:40:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Other than being grisly as hell, the guillotine can’t be beat in speed and effectiveness. We’ll never know what the condemned feels, but it can’t last more than a few seconds. That’s kind of what I was thinking except I was going up the effectiveness/grisly factor by … a lot. Basically, I was thinking of a giant piledriver forcing the cranium through an overscaled french fry cutter. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/22 "2014-05-24T15:16:28Z")
IIRC - Ol’ Sparky was the most popular chair name. Current technology would allow monitoring of the condemmed’s heart and brain function. Once the button is pushed or the switch is thrown, a computerized system could repeatedly apply the required amperage(s)/voltage(s) for sufficient time to permanently stop the heart and incapacitate the brain’s function (without the possibility of objectionable smoke, smell, or blood loss?). \*Electric Current Needed to Kill a Human A common misconception is that larger voltages are more dangerous than smaller ones. However, this is not quite true. The danger to living things comes not from the potential difference, but rather the current flowing between two points. The reason that people may believe this can be explained by the equation V = IR. Since V is directly proportional to I, an increase in voltage can mean an increase in current, if resistance (R) is kept constant. The amount of damage done by the electric shock depends not only on the magnitude of the current, but it also on which portions of the body that the electric current is flowing through. The reason for this is that different parts of the body have difference resistances, which can lead to an increase in current, evidenced by the formula V = IR. …In general, current that is fatal to humans ranges from 0.06 A to 0.07 A, depending on the person and the type of current\*. [http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/JackHsu.shtml](http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/JackHsu.shtml) \*Electric Current through an Electric Chair “The electric cycle, 1,825 volts at approximately 7.5 amps for 30 seconds, then 240 volts at approximately 1.5 amps for 60 seconds … a 5 second pause intervenes, and the cycle is repeated, was designed to render the condemned brain dead within the first few moments. The function of the remainder of the cycle is to stop the body’s organs so that a physician can certify that death has occurred ….” …“The first execution used a voltage of about 1,700, although it was not officially recorded. The voltage has tended to increase over time and in the modern era the voltage is usually 2,000 to 2,200 volts at seven to twelve amps.”\* [http://hypertextbook.com/facts/AprilDunetz.shtml](http://hypertextbook.com/facts/AprilDunetz.shtml) _Voltage of an Electric Chair_ [http://hypertextbook.com/facts/NancyRyan.shtml](http://hypertextbook.com/facts/NancyRyan.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/23 "2014-05-24T15:20:25Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > It cannot be stated strongly enough: There were _many_ botched lethal injection executions before the current shortage of drugs started. This played a part in the reduced availability of such drugs. _Not the other way around_. Too many people, especially of the type likely to be sentenced to death, have vein issues, weird drug resistances, etc. It is just not reliable. And “botched executions” themselves weighed heavily in the phasing out of The Chair in the first place. Reports of people somehow refusing to stop breathing after the regular series of zaps so you had to keep at it, badly rigged setups giving at first painful but not deadly shocks that merely caused bad flesh burns, and the ocassional subject getting set on fire, led to the urge to replace with the supposedly more civilized IV “cocktail”. If one harkens back in history, now that the guillotine has been mentioned, one hears that was one of the reasons for developing it as well – the matter of the ocassional subject requiring repeated whacks of the axe (at the time the issue of the huge mess of blood was apparently not so bothersome, people would pretty much expect it for a decapitation). ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/24 "2014-05-24T15:30:57Z")
> [@Carl\_Pham](#): > > Assuming you’re serious, probably by having a good computer program that would take as input the condemned’s size and shape (i.e. various body measurements), mass, fat and muscle content, probably age and state of health, measured skin resistance, et cetera, and then produce a prescription for voltage, current, and electrode placement. I gather the problem with screwed-up executions is that the particular person being electrocuted deviates from expectations of the characteristics of the human being as circuit element. You’re talking about something like the evolution of hanging from a crude “yank 'em up” to the complete books on technique, drops, rope type etc. that were written in the early 19th century. I think that technology and better medical understanding could create a highly lethal chair with minimal pain and suffering. Start with a pulse that’s much like ECT, then burn out the nervous system. ---
**Author:** ![Kazo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@Kazo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kazo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/25 "2014-05-24T15:41:50Z")
Why doesn’t Tennessee just build a gas chamber (if they don’t already have one), and then carry out execution by nitrogen asphyxiation? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/26 "2014-05-24T16:12:08Z")
Give the condemned a happy drug, then use the same technique as slaughterhouses use. (Seen “No Country For Old Men”?) The only question is which area of the brain to destroy to ensure quick and (relatively) painless death. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/27 "2014-05-24T16:16:19Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Give the condemned a happy drug… And we are back to “where can prisons buy happy drugs, if drug companies won’t sell to prisons?” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/28 "2014-05-24T16:26:31Z")
> [@Kazo](#): > > Why doesn’t Tennessee just build a gas chamber (if they don’t already have one), and then carry out execution by nitrogen asphyxiation? I maintain that CO poisoning is even more effective, and gentler. All forms of asphyxiation involve a final spasm as the body tries to suck in oxygen. CO does not, because it replaces O2 in the cycle and the body never realizes it’s dying. Victims even come out a healthy pink. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/29 "2014-05-24T16:38:54Z")
Seems to me if you want electrocution, you should do what **Amateur Barbarian** suggested, focus the current entirely on the brain (which, after all, is where the problem is in the first place). Why bother with the rest of the body? Just slag the offending grey matter. Which could just as easily be done with a well-aimed magnetron, probably with much less energy (no need for a full microwave oven, just a helmet). ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/30 "2014-05-24T18:53:35Z")
I tell people that microwaves cook from the inside out from the outside in. That sounds confusing at first, but this is what it means. Microwaves cook by exciting molecules inside the object being heated. That’s the inside out part. The heat comes from within the object, and is not transferred to the object externally as in a conventional oven. However, microwaves penetrate from the outside in, and they only penetrate a few cm into most materials. If you have a thick enough piece of meat, the center of it will stay cold in your microwave. If used on a human head, the microwaves won’t penetrate far enough into the skull to be fatal. You will however boil and pop the eyeballs and do a lot of burn damage to the skin and the muscles underneath. Sounds more like an incredibly evil torture device than a method of execution. Personally, if they are going to kill people (which I am opposed to, btw), I think they should use a great big weight with a spike on the end of it. Put the condemned into some sort of device that holds their head in place, release the weight, and whammo. The condemned person’s brain is obliterated long before they get a chance to feel anything. The only problem with this of course is that to an observer it would be incredibly gruesome. We’re a funny society. We don’t mind killing people as long as it’s done in a way that’s neat and tidy. Lethal injection is preferred these days not only because it’s painless to the condemned, but also because it is quiet and peaceful for the observers. From what I’ve read, cyanide is painless as long as the condemned cooperates. The problem is that they don’t cooperate. They hold their breath as long as possible, which turns it into a very torturous event for both the condemned and the observers who have to watch his suffering. CO would probably have the same problem. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/31 "2014-05-24T19:08:54Z")
Well, you could go with clinical exsanguination. Insert an IV catheter and start draining blood. The subject would lose consciousness fairly early on, and then their body would simply fail. Observers would see them become pale and then expire. Not really any more painful than injection, and somewhat less expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/32 "2014-05-24T19:18:02Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > CO would probably have the same problem. Nope. Slowly increase the CO while reducing the O2. There would never be a point at which a breath would be painful, or “empty” or even noticeable. The victim would slowly pass out and continue to breathe until the body shuts down from anoxia. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/33 "2014-05-24T19:18:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > A common misconception is that larger voltages are more dangerous than smaller ones. However, this is not quite true. The danger to living things comes not from the potential difference, but rather the current flowing between two points. The reason that people may believe this can be explained by the equation V = IR. Since V is directly proportional to I, an increase in voltage can mean an increase in current, if resistance (R) is kept constant. In human beings, the R isn’t constant. It also isn’t a simple R. One of the common (if over-simplified) models for the human body is a resistor in series with a combination resistor and capacitor in parallel. The values of these modeled components also varies according to the touch voltage. If you measure your resistance with a multimeter, you’ll find that it is very large, usually many megs. At electric chair voltages, the human body’s impedance drops to a few thousand ohms. > [@doorhinge](#): > > …In general, current that is fatal to humans ranges from 0.06 A to 0.07 A, depending on the person and the type of current\*. Electricity tends to kill you in one of two ways. Either it screws up your heartbeat or it cooks you to death. It takes a surprisingly small amount of current to screw up your heartbeat. The “safe” level by most electrical standards is 5 mA (0.005 amps). Anything above this can throw your heart into fibrillation. Your heart has a funny design in that the fibrillation state is stable, meaning that the heart generally won’t go back into a normal rhythm on its own. It will remain in fibrillation, just kinda shaking instead of beating. You pass out fairly quickly and die a short time after that. 10 mA (not much above the “safe” level) isn’t all that likely to throw the heart into fibrillation, but higher currents like 60 to 70 mA (what you’ve quoted there) are much more likely to do it. However, even these dangerous levels of current are still a bit hit and miss. Ironically, as the current levels increase, the fatality rate starts to drop. The reason for this is that once the currents get large enough, instead of throwing the heart into fibrillation they are more likely to make the heart muscles just clamp. Now at that point the heart isn’t pumping blood either, so again the person would pass out quickly and die a short time after that. However, if the source of current is removed in time, the heart will generally resume a normal rhythm on its own. But then as you increase the current, you start getting into the range of cooking damage, and the fatality rate rises again. Death by having your heartbeat interrupted would be extremely painful for the short time that you were conscious, which could be as long as 15 to 20 seconds, according to some experts. It’s also possible (though rare) for a heart to go back into a normal rhythm on its own once it’s been put into fibrillation. In contrast, the electric chair fries your brain on that first jolt so that you don’t feel pain during the rest of it (that’s the theory, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/34 "2014-05-24T19:29:24Z")
> [@Kazo](#): > > Why doesn’t Tennessee just build a gas chamber (if they don’t already have one), and then carry out execution by nitrogen asphyxiation? This. It seems to me that it’s the most humane and most reliable form of execution. The gas is easy to get, and is mostly harmless to bystanders. [QUOTE=Amateur Barbarian] I maintain that CO poisoning is even more effective, and gentler. All forms of asphyxiation involve a final spasm as the body tries to suck in oxygen. CO does not, because it replaces O2 in the cycle and the body never realizes it’s dying. Victims even come out a healthy pink. [/QUOTE] Or this. But then again, CO is not mostly harmless to bystanders. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/35 "2014-05-24T19:36:08Z")
> [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > But then again, CO is not mostly harmless to bystanders. Not those inside the green chamber, no. It’s far less harmful in leakage quantities than cyanogen gas… ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/36 "2014-05-24T20:16:44Z")
**Moderator Action** Looking back over this thread, there is a lot of factual information here, but there’s also opinion and even a bit of debate. I don’t see anywhere near enough debate for GD, but there’s enough opinion to push this outside the bounds of GQ. So, let’s move it to IMHO. Note that factual information may still be given. Moving thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/37 "2014-05-24T20:25:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > IIRC - Ol’ Sparky was the most popular chair name. Other nicknames were Old Smokey, Sizzling Sally, The Hot Seat, and Gruesome Gertie, all of which should both be fairly obvious, as well as Alabama’s Yellow Mama, which got its nickname from being painted with yellow highway line paint. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/38 "2014-05-24T21:27:00Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Action** > > Looking back over this thread, there is a lot of factual information here, but there’s also opinion and even a bit of debate. I don’t see anywhere near enough debate for GD, but there’s enough opinion to push this outside the bounds of GQ. So, let’s move it to IMHO. **Note that factual information may still be given.** We’re allowed to give factual information in IMHO now? Who knew? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/39 "2014-05-25T02:35:17Z")
A footrest might be nice. As for cooking the condemned, that may be true, but isn’t it true the central nervous system is instantly fried, rendering the condemned unconscious? Isn’t it more grisly for the viewers than the condemned? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152/40 "2014-05-25T05:03:24Z")
Speaking of the [electrical resistance](http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/tennessee-brings-back-electric-chair-052314) aspect: > [@](#): > > After the first two minute power surge, there was a six minute pause so his body could cool before physicians could examine him (and declare that another jolt was needed). During that six-minute interval, Stephens took 23 breaths. A Georgia prison official said, “Stephens was just not a conductor” of electricity. I’m against the death penalty, since I’ve pretty much given up on its ever being applied with very much care at all. (Not so much the mechanics of the execution (though they’re problematic as well) as the legal process of getting condemned to death in the first place.) But if it must be done, then I agree with **BobLibDem** : a guillotine is going to be about as quick and sure as it gets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-might-the-electric-chair-be-modernized/689152.md?page=3)