# How moral are the Mainland Chinese in treating workers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-moral-are-the-mainland-chinese-in-treating-workers/375847 "2006-10-09T22:11:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-moral-are-the-mainland-chinese-in-treating-workers/375847/1 "2006-10-09T22:11:29Z")
Beyond the hazy notion of the probable existence of some sort of practical mercantile Confucianism, I really have no idea what informs the moral posture of the everyday person or businessman in China when dealing with others. I was reading this[L.A. Times story](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-chizambia6oct06,0,2865535.story?coll=la-home-headlines) on how the Chinese are treating working in Africa and it seems pretty brutal. What defines the envelope of Chinese personal ethics with respect to how you treat workers or other people generally? The mine story is oddly pointed in that the Africans are apparently too incompetent and corrupt to runs the mines themselves, but the brutally efficient Chinese who took over the failed nationalist operations are .. well.. \*too \* brutal. > [@](#): > > Critics say that safety standards in China’s mines are among the worst in the world and that Chinese companies have exported low pay and hazardous conditions to Africa and elsewhere. But a manager at the Chambishi mine, Xu Ruiyong, strongly contested those accusations, saying the mine has one of the best safety records in the area. > > The company recently reached an agreement with unions to bring pay scales at the mine into line with the national minimum wage. But workers contend that employees doing similar work at other mines are paid more. > > For the miners toiling underground, submerged in their own bread-and-butter struggle, the debates seem remote. > > “It’s very little money,” said Nguni, 25, describing his job at the Collum mine. “There are no leave days. These people are very stingy when it comes to money, even though we make a lot of profit for the mine. We are seen as nonentities. The mine management is just concerned about profit, not human life.” > > The people of Chambishi were pleased when Chinese investors took over a large copper mine in 1997 and reopened it as NFC Africa in 2003. Many state-owned mines, including the Chambishi operation, had failed in the early 1990s. > > “But people got very frustrated because of the working conditions,” said shop steward Angel Chama, 29. “At the moment in the mining industry, people are not happy with the Chinese investors. I think there’s no hope unless the government gets really tough on these guys.” > > Albert Mando, general secretary of the National Miners and Allied Workers Union, said that before the pay deal was reached in July, the lowest-paid workers at NFC got $14 a month. Under the deal, that was increased to $68, roughly the country’s minimum wage. > > He said injuries were common and that workers were often afraid to complain because they were hired on one-year contracts and could easily be fired > [@](#): > > NFC employee Lassmithy Sakeni, 27, who was injured in the July riots, said popular resentment toward the Chinese in the area was growing. > > “They’re not liked,” Sakeni said. “They’re not wanted here.” > > In late July, hundreds of rock-throwing workers tried to force their way into the mining compound. They later marched to a Chinese residential compound in Chambishi township, where a company manager fired a shotgun at the rioters, wounding four. A government inquiry is underway. > > “We saw a Chinese official was shooting at the miners. The second shot hit me in the head,” said Elias Siama, 32. “After being discharged from the clinic, I reported for work, but I was told not to come to work because I was seen as being among the ringleaders.” > > Xu, the company official, said that Chinese mine employees at the compound were terrified for their lives and that the leaders of the protest should be jailed for life. > > But he acknowledged that the company had to accommodate itself to local circumstances in Zambia. With an eye to the long term, the mine’s managers are planning to contribute money to community projects such as education and HIV/AIDS prevention. > > “I admit that for us Chinese, we must learn something new when we are operating a company in a foreign country, to meet the cultural gap,” Xu said. “I think we are able to make things better.” ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-moral-are-the-mainland-chinese-in-treating-workers/375847/2 "2006-10-09T23:25:36Z")
The track record of the Chinese towards worker safety leaves a lot to be desired. Less so in the big cities. Historically China is a serf culture where life is cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-moral-are-the-mainland-chinese-in-treating-workers/375847/3 "2006-10-10T12:40:23Z")
My brother went over on a 6 week contract to a Chinese run oil drill in Iran. He was not very impressed with their safety standards. For example, they had a number of machines that needed power extension cords. To save money, the firm only had one old half stripped cord that a worker had to trade around on the machines. My brother said every time this guy switched it from one machine to another he would get a bit of a shock. He also said the local Iranian workers weren’t too happy with the Chinese bosses, but I don’t know any specifics. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-moral-are-the-mainland-chinese-in-treating-workers/375847/4 "2006-10-10T14:34:58Z")
Perhaps China needs some sort of a Workers’ Revolution… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-moral-are-the-mainland-chinese-in-treating-workers/375847/5 "2006-10-10T21:28:52Z")
Laogai is use of prison labor ,which some studies say is a significant part of Chinas GNP. Claims are 20 hr work day under horrible conditions. If that is a base point ,then anything is possible. I worked for companies that designed and built automation and machines. When we sold to the east China, Korea etal ,we knew all safety devices would be removed in production. We charged a lot, feeling sure they would reverse engineer and skip patent rights. Capitalism stripped bare. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-moral-are-the-mainland-chinese-in-treating-workers/375847/6 "2006-10-10T21:41:29Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] We charged a lot, feeling sure they would reverse engineer and skip patent rights. Capitalism stripped bare. [/QUOTE] My brother said they had people who would swipe any technical manual and machine schematic they could find and spend all night faxing every page of it back to China.