# How much are diamonds actually \*worth\*? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 30, 2001, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121 "2001-11-30T14:26:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/21 "2001-11-30T18:07:57Z")
I don’t think De Beers is an American company so the US Govt. can do anything about it. I think the US Govt can only try to break up American monopolies (ie. Miocrosoft). I am not an attorney so I could be wrong. Also, the contry De Beers is from may be profiting greatly from their business . ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/22 "2001-11-30T18:09:08Z")
I don’t think De Beers is an American company so the US Govt. can do anything about it. I think the US Govt can only try to break up American monopolies (ie. Microsoft). I am not an attorney so I could be wrong. Also, the contry De Beers is from may be profiting greatly from their business . ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/23 "2001-11-30T18:11:06Z")
I don’t think De Beers is an American company so the US Govt. can’t do anything about it. I think the US Govt can only try to break up American monopolies (ie. Microsoft). I am not an attorney so I could be wrong. Also, the contry De Beers is from may be profiting greatly from their business . ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/24 "2001-11-30T18:18:26Z")
Sorry about that, Chief. Would you believe my computer did that all by itself? How 'bout two girl scouts and a seeing eye dog? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/25 "2001-11-30T18:39:40Z")
Diamonds are worth NOTHING. They don’t do crap, their look can be duplicated. Who cares if they are rare? Leave them in the damn grown for all I care. They are too much a burden on men, and people who sell them take advantage of them being practically essential for engagement. If a woman loves you, then who the hell cares. It’s not even that pretty, it’s just a symbol that your man can provide for you. That’s old fashioned so screw it. Or, maybe you could give her a diamond and get a cool home entertainment center from her. EVEN the score a little! And while we’re at it, women can open the door for me once in a while, and pay for dates. I’m all for = pay for women. Give a little, take a little for equality. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/26 "2001-11-30T19:54:53Z")
This is why I have decided that I never want to own a diamond. I love gemstones, and would be happy with a number of alternative choices for an engagement ring. There are a number of white stones, such as white topaz, which can be substituted for diamonds, and many manufactured diamonds which are indistinguishable from the real thing to the untrained eye. The business practices of DeBeers were dealt with earlier this year on Law & Order in the episode [Soldier of Fortune](http://www.nbc.com/Law_&_Order/episode_guide/104.html). ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/27 "2001-11-30T21:43:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SpoilerVirgin \* > \*\*This is why I have decided that I never want to own a diamond. I love gemstones, and would be happy with a number of alternative choices for an engagement ring. There are a number of white stones, such as white topaz, which can be substituted for diamonds, and many manufactured diamonds which are indistinguishable from the real thing to the untrained eye. > > The business practices of DeBeers were dealt with earlier this year on Law & Order in the episode [Soldier of Fortune](http://www.nbc.com/Law_&_Order/episode_guide/104.html). \*\* Wow, you’re great!! Really, it would be a woman like you to get me to bow down and kiss ass. I don’t mind kissing ass for an unselfish gal. I would more than make up for the diamond costs! STAY COOL! ---
**Author:** ![ModernRonin2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@ModernRonin2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernRonin2)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/28 "2001-11-30T22:03:58Z")
According to [http://www.howstuffworks.com/diamond.htm](http://www.howstuffworks.com/diamond.htm) (and I honestly have no idea how valid his information is), diamonds are really no scarcer or more difficult to mine than any other kind of precious gemstone. Assuming that’s correct, if diamonds were priced according the labor it took to mine and machine them, they should be very close in price to all other precious gemstones. But they’re not - they’re a lot more expensive. And the reason, as everyone else has so accurately pointed out, is that the De Beers cartel engages in price-fixing, and other such evil practices. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/29 "2001-11-30T22:17:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Keeve \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by ftg \* > > \*\*BTW, Keeve’s point doesn’t work if there’s a single cartel controlling over 90% of the market. \*\* > > Why not? > > If people are paying what the cartel wants, doesn’t that establish what the value is? > > It seems to me that in the same way the deBeers (or whoever) is keeping the prices high, the fact that people like Istara are NOT buying the diamonds that they’d LIKE to buy works in the opposite direction, keeping the prices lower than they’d be otherwise. > > Potential sellers would like the prices to be higher, potential buyers would like them to be lower, and the true value is being determined by the ones doing the actual buying and selling. > > IANA economist, but what errors have I made in the above? \*\* This has been skirted around a bit in this thread, but I think the real question isn’t “what are diamonds worth,” (which, as you point out, is a purely subjective function) but rather “what would diamond prices be in a competitive market”? In a market with many suppliers, the diamond companies are price-takers – they can’t set the price by themselves. The market does that on its own. If any one firm tries to raise their price higher than equilibrium, their competitors swoop in and steal their customers. In a monopoly situation, the supplier sets the price by restricting supply. Generally, the supplier will put a supply on the market that maximizes his profits beyond competitive equilibrium. Since he doesn’t have to worry about competitors stealing business by undercutting his prices (by adding to the supply side of the equation). The monopolist gives up some sales in order to charge the profit-maximizing price. ---
**Author:** ![Tretiak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@Tretiak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tretiak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/30 "2001-11-30T23:54:39Z")
Yeah, the word “worth” is pretty loaded. The classic example of course, is that water is “worth” more, yet is relatively cheap when compared to diamonds. It is a typical eample when trying to teach the concept of marginal versus total. Price is not an indication of “worth” or value, it is simply a market-clearing point, you might claim it is simply the worht of the marginal unit bought/sold. “Worth”, if we are talking about “utility”, “psychic Value”, etc. is an individual concept. What is insulin worth? Well to me, not too much, to a diabetic, quite a lot. Now if the quaetion is what wouldd the price of diamonds be without a cartel, the simplest answer I would think is a bit more thatn similar gemstones like rubies. The only reason they would be more expensive is because, 'artificial" or not, there is a greater demand for diamonds. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/31 "2001-12-01T00:19:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robcaro \* > \*\*Gleaned this from the Internet: > > \*\* Specifically, you gleaned it from a site that is “Copyright © 2000 Ben Inker.” Great catch, but please don’t post copyrighted stuff on this site. Thanks for your cooperation. ---
**Author:** ![nth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/32 "2001-12-01T00:21:33Z")
From what I thought, debeer is a clearinghouse for diamonds and that the diamonds may not be theirs but someone else’s. They are willing to sell diamonds from other mines besides their own. Manufactured diamonds can be made cheaper than the current sale price from debeer. No naked trained eye can tell the difference between the two. The only way to tell the difference between the best manufactured diamond and natural diamond is by looking at the diamond on the atomic/molecule level. A very costly method. One thing I want to point out is that Manufactured diamonds are not fake diamonds. They are made of carbon and form the same type of chemical bonds as natural diamonds. I don’t see why one is better than the other. They all have same properties. Okay, diamonds are very useful. Thus, Industrial quality diamonds… Gem quality diamonds maybe over-valued, but diamonds play a key role in our technology driven society. Or at least historically, cuz diamonds are being replaced by other tools as time progresses. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/33 "2001-12-01T02:52:25Z")
Simple fact is people will pay more for NATURAL things than artifical. No one will want a man made diamond. In fact De Beers is working on a tiny microchip (or something tiny like that) that will certify it is De Beers and that it came from the ground. This is similar other things. For example Consumer Reports reported that consumers buying free range chickens and other meats not only couldn’t tell the difference between store bought and free range they atually preferred the former. I think it is easier to compare metals like silver and gold as they have more uses. For instance gold would be worth more than silver as it is more workable, dosen’t tarnish etc. With stones it’s hard to tell. ---
**Author:** ![truthbot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@truthbot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthbot)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/34 "2001-12-01T04:48:17Z")
I loved my engagement ring when my fiancee first presented it to me. Oooh, how it glittered and shone with the light of a thousand suns! It is very pleasing to the eye, I must say. When I took the ring into the jewelers to be resized last week, they brought out the original paperwork that went with the ring. And left it out where I could peruse it! (How tacky!) The platinum setting: $x,xxx.xx The diamond: $xx,xxx.xx After reading this thread, I’m not sure if I owe the fiancee the BJ of the century, or if I should just be pissed because he spent that much money on a _diamond_! Seriously, if he had consulted me first, I would have said NO WAY! I feel it’s ridiculous to spend that much money on a rock. But what’s done is done, and that’s his way of letting me know how much he loves me. So I won’t mention it to him. Even though I now feel like a shit because I only spent $x,xxx.xx on his wedding band. Maybe I could discreetly strap a Mercedes onto his ring finger at the wedding ceremony? Just to even things out a bit? Oh yeah, that’s the ticket.🙂 I guess you can’t put a price on romance, and DeBeers and their ilk make their living on that. Along with the super-smelly parfum makers. Chanel #5 makes me gag! But it is still considered to be the ‘ultimate’ gift for the refined woman. Go figure. Traditions and all that rot… ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/35 "2001-12-01T05:14:33Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess you can’t put a price on romance, and DeBeers and their ilk make their living on that. Along with the super-smelly parfum makers. Chanel #5 makes me gag! But it is still considered to be the ‘ultimate’ gift for the refined woman. Go figure. Traditions and all that rot… It gets better. Apparently De Beers _created_ that tradition. In the 19th century, a pearl was a perfectly acceptable ornament for a wedding ring. Not so much anymore. From [http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/82feb/8202diamond1.htm](http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/82feb/8202diamond1.htm) > [@](#): > > The diamond invention is far more than a monopoly for fixing diamond prices; it is a mechanism for converting tiny crystals of carbon into universally recognized tokens of wealth, power, and romance. To achieve this goal, De Beers had to control demand as well as supply. Both women and men had to be made to perceive diamonds not as marketable precious stones but as an inseparable part of courtship and married life. To stabilize the market, De Beers had to endow these stones with a sentiment that would inhibit the public from ever reselling them. The illusion had to be created that diamonds were forever – “forever” in the sense that they should never be resold. and > [@](#): > > In Germany, Austria, Italy, and Spain, the notion of giving a diamond ring to commemorate an engagement had never taken hold. In England and France, diamonds were still presumed to be jewels for aristocrats rather than the masses. Furthermore, Europe was on the verge of war, and there seemed little possibility of expanding diamond sales. This left the United States as the only real market for De Beers’s diamonds. In fact, in 1938 some three quarters of all the cartel’s diamonds were sold for engagement rings in the United States. Most of these stones, however, were smaller and of poorer quality than those bought in Europe, and had an average price of $80 apiece. Oppenheimer and the bankers believed that an advertising campaign could persuade Americans to buy more expensive diamonds. ---
**Author:** ![Pop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@Pop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pop)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/36 "2001-12-01T07:19:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by robcaro \* > > \*\*Gleaned this from the Internet: > > > > \*\* > > Specifically, you gleaned it from a site that is “Copyright © 2000 Ben Inker.” Great catch, but please don’t post copyrighted stuff on this site. > > Thanks for your cooperation. \*\* Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t _everything_ that is written copyrighted? It’s been 20 years since I took a copyright course geared toward engineers, but that was my recollection. You don’t have to put the little “©” on your work anymore or send copies to congress, or any of that stuff. The US applies an automatic copyright to all work. Trademarks, on the other hand… There is also the “fair use” doctrine, and quoting a sentence or two, especially when the source is referenced, seems to fall under that. ---
**Author:** ![robcaro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@robcaro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robcaro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/37 "2001-12-01T18:28:38Z")
Sorry Manhatten, but I didn’t realize that the substance of the material that I submitted in my post was in fact copywrited. I will try to be more cognizant of that fact in the future. RC ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/38 "2001-12-01T18:48:43Z")
We had another thread on this a while back, too: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=29498](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=29498) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2001, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/39 "2001-12-02T01:25:16Z")
**handy** said > [@](#): > > The guy who buys them locally said he would pay a dollar a point to me for stones I brought to him. He is pretty fair & probably wouldn’t charge a lot more than that if I bought them used from him. We buy/sell diamonds in our store. Let’s take just **two** of the 30 diamonds I bought from the public today as an example. Diamond #1. It was a 62 point(.62 ct.) marquis diamond. It was an SI[sub]1[/sub] clarity, H in color. I paid the lady $350. for it. That’s almost $6/point. So, handy, your guy would have just paid you $62. for the same stone? Diamond #2. It was a 25 pointer, quarter carat, whatever. Round. It was an I[sub]1[/sub](obvious flaws)/ I color. I paid $50 for it. That’s $2/point. And that’s being cheep. A dollar a point, unless you’re talking about single cut melee(1-2 point stuff) is pretty cheep. Try to buy a half carat stone from him sometime for $2/point. For those who posted that gem quality artificial diamonds are now available for some low percentage of the real thing–I don’t believe that this is true. The synthetic diamonds are coming but not currently available. Please don’t confuse Moisanite with real or synthetic diamonds. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121/40 "2001-12-03T06:44:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > **Simple fact is people will pay more for NATURAL things than artifical. No one will want a man made diamond. In fact De Beers is working on a tiny microchip (or something tiny like that) that will certify it is De Beers and that it came from the ground.** There will always be a apecial appeal to something that “Nature made”. But since I just want diamonds because of their sparkle qualities, I would be happy to compromise on this. Man-made would do for me just fine. And the thought of attaching a microchip to a diamond, “natural” or otherwise, is about as “unnatural” as you can get!! The saddest thing I have found from this post is about the resale value of diamonds. When I heard about people spending a lot on a diamond engagement ring, I always thought: “Well, it’s extravagant, but at least it’s an investment. The thing will hold its value, etc etc, they can always sell it if they ever get into terrible financial difficulty.” But now from what people have posted it appears this is simply not true. Which makes De Beers deceptive and corrupt, IMO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-are-diamonds-actually-worth/96121.md?page=3)