# How much better are European soccer teams than American teams? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 24, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191 "2012-06-24T23:20:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Best\_Pokemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Best\_Pokemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Best_Pokemon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/41 "2012-11-21T15:55:22Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Well unfortunately the teams don’t play each other competitively, due to apparently no US team ever qualifying for the [FIFA World Club Championship](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Club_Championship). Surely the fact that no MLS team has ever qualified for that is something to think about? Especially considering that a European team has won it the last five times. > > Another thing that may affect the situation is that although some US “stars” are rightly considered to be excellent players, others are less so. I’m a Coventry City fan, for example, and after the 1994 World Cup we signed a player from the US team. He was woeful and lasted only a season. His name was Cobi Jones and he went on to be the most capped player in the US national team’s history. Things like that tend to affect your views. That’s fair enough. Although, I’ve seen many top players from other countries struggle in England but play well in other leagues (such as Kanoute, Helder Postiga, Forlan etc.) Cobi Jones is actually quite popular in Latin America after his performances in the 1995 Copa America. It seems people will never know how good leagues are in comparison to each other. You can’t really use top teams in competitions as a measurement. For example, if you compare Dutch, French and Portuguese performances in European competition since 1970s to now you would probably say Portuguese and Dutch teams are better than the French but this isn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Best\_Pokemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Best\_Pokemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Best_Pokemon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/42 "2012-11-21T15:56:27Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > And as you well know, “American” as an adjective is most commonly used to describe something from the United States of America. “South American” and “North American” are used to describe things from the two continents but “American” to describe something from the combined landmass of North and South America is generally only used by pedants such as yourself. That’s one of the correct usages of the word “American”. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/43 "2012-11-21T16:05:34Z")
> [@Best\_Pokemon](#): > > That’s one of the correct usages of the word “American”. That’s why I used words like “generally” and “commonly”. “American” in everyday use has one specific meaning, despite the additional dictionary definitions. We all knew this. We all knew what country the thread’s title was referring to. Njtt’s comment was at best overly pedantic and at worst borderline threadshitting. But then again this is the SDMB. Pedantic is seen as a badge of honour here. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/44 "2012-11-21T18:13:07Z")
A couple of things: Firstly, an MLS team beaing a top European team in a friendly has little to no meaning. The European team will play a watered down team and play at about 70% speed. The MLS team on the other hand will go all out and field their best squad. It’s a money spinner for the European team and nothing else. Secondly, an average MLS would have no chance in the Premiership. They simply aren’t good enough. Maybe they would survive in the Championship but that’s unlikely. There difference in skill really is that vast. Look at it this way, MLS’ likely best player, Landon Donovan, was a decent player of a middling Everton team. MLS is getting better and it is a good incubator for growing US talent but absent a once-off shock, an MLS team wouldn’t survive in a league format. And that’s the key, the league format over a season is a true indicator of talent. Think of the MLS as like single A versus the major leagues. ---
**Author:** ![Best\_Pokemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Best\_Pokemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Best_Pokemon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/45 "2012-11-21T18:53:09Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > A couple of things: > > Firstly, an MLS team beaing a top European team in a friendly has little to no meaning. The European team will play a watered down team and play at about 70% speed. The MLS team on the other hand will go all out and field their best squad. It’s a money spinner for the European team and nothing else. > > Secondly, an average MLS would have no chance in the Premiership. They simply aren’t good enough. Maybe they would survive in the Championship but that’s unlikely. There difference in skill really is that vast. Look at it this way, MLS’ likely best player, Landon Donovan, was a decent player of a middling Everton team. > > MLS is getting better and it is a good incubator for growing US talent but absent a once-off shock, an MLS team wouldn’t survive in a league format. And that’s the key, the league format over a season is a true indicator of talent. Think of the MLS as like single A versus the major leagues. Everton and Donovan is not really a good example. Everton is not an average team. Everton is a good team in England over the past few years. Donovan also had 7 assists in 8 games for Everton on loan. Also, MLS teams don’t go all out when they play friendlies. They normally make 5 to 8 substitutions when they play friendlies. NY Red Bulls even used a reserve team against Juventus a few years ago. You can’t really compare leagues. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/46 "2012-11-22T15:23:04Z")
Nonsense. You absolutely can compare leagues and the MLS doesn’t stack up. Look at it this way, there is a reason that the top talent migrates to the best leagues (and the best compensation). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/47 "2012-11-22T15:35:46Z")
> [@Best\_Pokemon](#): > > You can’t really compare leagues. I feel very confident stating that the CFL is not nearly as good as the NFL, that NPB isn’t as good as MLB but could put up a respectable fight, and that the KHL isn’t as good as the NHL but is definitely way better than the SEL. Any fan of those sports would agree with me. Why can’t you do the same in soccer? I have a lot of difficulty believing a league with a $3 million salary cap per team is in any way comparable to a league like the EPL where the average salary per player is over a million bucks, not to mention far more opportunity for endorsement deals. Unless soccer players are the world’s most economically irrational people, you can’t explain why the EPL wouldn’t attract more talent. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/48 "2012-11-22T15:54:18Z")
Shouldn’t it be called Minor League Soccer, at least until they get a little better? ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/49 "2012-11-22T16:10:31Z")
No, no more than the MLB should be called Minor League Baseball. Regardless of how it stacks up against international leagues, the MLS is the top, or “Major” league in the US. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/50 "2012-11-22T16:14:41Z")
Well, the\* reason \*it’s called Major League Soccer is to make it more popular. It sounds more impressive, gives the league a bit more PR panache, is reminiscent of one of the largest, oldest and most popular sports leagues in the world, and sounds different from previous attempts at a pro soccer league in North America. In other words, it’s called that to make money. So it shouldn’t be called Minor League Soccer because then the league would be far less popular, and they’d lose money. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/51 "2012-11-22T16:47:14Z")
I do remember in the 2002 WC when the US was doing well, there was a question as to what would happen if the US won the whole thing.Mass suicides in Europe was the answer. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/52 "2012-11-22T16:53:04Z")
> [@Best\_Pokemon](#): > > Whenever a non-European club or international team beat a European team in a friendly the Eurosnobs always say the European team didn’t take it seriously (as if the non-Euro teams always take friendlies seriously). **If the Euro team wins they boast about how strong European teams are and the weakness non-Euro team** (many times without even contemplating if the non-Euro took it seriously or without even knowing how many bench/reserve players were used). An example is China’s win over France before the 2010 World Cup. China used an experimental team but most people assumed France didn’t take the friendly seriously. > > It is nothing but Euro snobbery to say an MLS team is comparable to a League 1 or League 2 team in England. With all due respect, if the euro team wins those friendly games you would be hard pressed to find any mention of it at all, never mind boasting about it. They are pre-season friendlies, only played due to sponsorship commitments. You can have little doubt that most of the top players don’t take them seriously, they will just walk through them to avoid injury. On the wider issue, the top European teams are an order of magnitude better than MLS teams. Thats just reality, and its not really a slight on MLS teams to say it, any more than its a slight on League of Ireland teams to say that they would struggle in the English leagues. The MLS is a young league with various restrictions placed on it. I would be pretty confident that a team like QPR, the current bottom side in the English premier league, would be MLS champions quite easily. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/53 "2012-11-22T16:56:49Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > But then again this is the SDMB. Pedantic is seen as a badge of honour here. I think you mean Pedantry 😉 ---
**Author:** ![taskmgr.exe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@taskmgr.exe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taskmgr.exe)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191/54 "2012-11-30T13:20:08Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Top European teams are _not_ generally better than top (South) American teams. That’s just ridiculous. Top European teams are way better than top South American teams. I can’t believe you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-better-are-european-soccer-teams-than-american-teams/626191.md?page=2)