# How much blame does Europe deserve for financially supporting suicide bombers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2002, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438 "2002-05-05T22:19:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/1 "2002-05-05T22:19:56Z")
Since groups like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are making widespread accusations of war crimes, let’s see whether Europe has clean hands. Europe has been donating money to Arafat. Arafat used some of that money to pay for terrorist attacks against Israel. The Europeans donors allowed their donaitons to be used to pay for suicide bombs. So, how much blame does Europe deserve for financially supportinjg terrorism? Are they blameless? Were they just careless? Did they commit war crimes? Crimes against humanity? Dopers – what’s your verdict? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/2 "2002-05-05T22:32:02Z")
My verdict? That **december** is still not seriously trying to debate a topic, but is once again trying to get some juvenile enjoyment out of simply getting a rise out of the “liberals”. DNFTT, folks. PS: In addition, Arafat is still the head of the Palestinian Authority and leader of a proto-state in desperate need of foreign aid if it is to function. Europe also supported the terrorist Begin and his Irgun organization before 1948 - now try to explain the difference nonracistly, if you can. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/3 "2002-05-05T22:35:10Z")
:rolleyes: Oh. My. God. ---
**Author:** ![tapioca\_tundra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@tapioca\_tundra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapioca_tundra)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/4 "2002-05-05T23:00:36Z")
Help me december because I don’t know. Did they give cash to Arafat or give financial aid in kind like we do? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/5 "2002-05-06T00:13:38Z")
Our governments actually provides terrorist weapons like welfare to the Palestinians… ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/6 "2002-05-06T00:16:43Z")
Talking about your loaded questions!! **december** , does it not occur to you that many in the Arab world are saying the exact same thing about America financially supporting Israel’s brand of ‘terror’? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/7 "2002-05-06T00:19:04Z")
I have to say, this is probably one of his most offensive threads yet. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/8 "2002-05-06T00:22:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > The Europeans donors allowed their donaitons to be used to pay for suicide bombs. At least Wildest Bill seemingly acted on limited ability and pure instinct, you do it wilfully and with calculation…one imagines the game is almost up. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/9 "2002-05-06T00:27:28Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** All right, everybody. Either discuss the topic or go start a Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/10 "2002-05-06T00:44:18Z")
The US tax[payer has been giving Arafat $500mn a year according to [these guys](http://www.noahide.com/israel/plo_petition.htm) - who obviously have an ax to grind. But whatever the actual number of $$, we all know that the US does aid the Palestinians, just as the Europeans do. So let’s have another thread “How much blame does the US deserve for financially supporting terrorism?” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/11 "2002-05-06T00:52:24Z")
The problem here is that there is almost nothing in the OP that we can use as a guideline for debate; I am surprised that the moderators are not warning **december**. In any case, here is a starting point IMO: > **[The Learning Network](https://www.nytimes.com/section/learning)** > > Teach and Learn With The Times: Resources for Bringing the World Into Your Classroom > [@](#): > > Most of the money is coming from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait, countries that until recently refused to provide direct aid to Yasir Arafat’s semiautonomous government. The European Union and the United States have been the biggest donors until now. > > The six months of payments are in addition to the unpublicized transfer of $80 million in Arab grants and loans to the Authority since December, exceeding the $65 million it received from European governments. > > The Authority administers the Palestinian-controlled areas of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, running schools, hospitals and security forces. > > Its revenues have been slashed by the current conflict with Israel — a crisis that has halved Palestinian incomes, tripled unemployment and fueled popular anger not just at Israel but at the Authority itself. Without new financial support, American diplomats and United Nations envoys have warned in recent weeks, the Authority faces imminent bankruptcy. > > [snip] > > Iraq, like Syria and Libya, disdained the Authority as the misbegotten offspring of the 1993 Israeli- Palestinian peace pact, which it implacably opposed. European governments — with the support of the United States and, more ambivalently, Israel — unsuccessfully urged Arab states to share more of the aid burden. > But with the intense pro-Palestinian sentiment aroused in the Arab world by five months of violent confrontations with Israel, and growing concern over the potential impact of the conflict, the Arab consensus has suddenly changed, and the Authority is the beneficiary. AFAIK as in the case of the USA, the money was not given directly to the Palestinian authority but to the Palestinian social programs. For the OP my veredict is that **december’s** sources are not reliable once again. My overall verdict is that this time you have gone too far **december** ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/12 "2002-05-06T03:33:02Z")
If these are our standards of evidence and judgement, then obviously the US is guilty for creating al-Qaeda… I wonder if the OP has a sense of shame or not. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/13 "2002-05-06T04:07:00Z")
Well, hmm. > [@](#): > > Europe has been donating money to Arafat. Arafat used some of that money to pay for terrorist attacks against Israel. How do we know this? > [@](#): > > The Europeans donors allowed their donaitons to be used to pay for suicide bombs. How do we know this? > [@](#): > > So, how much blame does Europe deserve for financially supportinjg terrorism? About as much as the US deserves for supporting the IRA, probably. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/14 "2002-05-06T04:48:31Z")
Oh wow, another **December** bashing thread! How very original. :rolleyes: Kudos to December, though, on annoying both Guin and Elvis in the same thread! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/15 "2002-05-06T10:37:58Z")
My understanding of this is that the European Union was encouraged by both the US and Israel to put together packages of development aid for the Palestinian Authority. I believe that EU aid paid for the Education Ministry buildings and equipment in Ramallah which was needlessly destroyed by the IDF as part of its dismantling of signs of Palestinian statehood. The EU is considering requesting Israel to repay this and other money to the EU so that it can again be applied to such projects, failing which, there is a suggestion that EU ‘aid’ to Israel (preferential access to EU markets) may be withdrawn. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/16 "2002-05-06T11:42:43Z")
The EU has been funding basic aid and infrastructure projects in Palestine, to help them create a better, more stable society - a society less likely to breed suicide bombers, made desperate by oppression and poverty and suffering. America has supported and funded Israel - a country that has consistently and deliberately destroyed said EU aid and infrastructure projects, thus increasing the sense of desperation and oppression amongst Palestinians, and thereby fostering the likelihood of suicide bombers. Here’s your cite: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle\_east/newsid\_1834000/1834070.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1834000/1834070.stm) Therefore, using **december’s** “logic”, America has been directly supporting Israeli terrorism, and indirectly fostering Palestinian terrorism… ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/17 "2002-05-06T13:22:28Z")
Israeli terrorism? Where does your site mention that, **istara**? Or am I supposed to assume that when they say “military strike” they mean “cowardly terrorist actions”? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/18 "2002-05-06T15:30:50Z")
It depends on whether they’ve stopped beating their wife.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/19 "2002-05-06T15:55:49Z")
Verdict: OP = BS. Buh bye now. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/20 "2002-05-06T16:51:15Z")
I am not replying to this OP. I repeat: I am not replying to this OP. Because I’d hate to be guilty of something by association. :rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438.md?page=2)