# How much blame does Europe deserve for financially supporting suicide bombers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2002, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438 "2002-05-05T22:19:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/21 "2002-05-06T16:59:25Z")
**december** , you know full well this thread belongs in the pit and you should ask to have it moved there so we can all express our indignation about what the OP describes. > [@](#): > > [The Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37447-2002May5.html): > > The Israeli report noted that the European Union provided about a tenth of the Palestinian Authority’s $90 million monthly budget, a large chunk of which was spent paying the salaries of “terrorists.” In this way, said Naveh, the Israeli minister, the Europeans inadvertently supported terrorist attacks on Israel. Shocking! If president Bush is a man of his word he should start bombing Europe without delay. > [@](#): > > Questioned by reporters, Naveh acknowledged that the CIA also provided substantial assistance for Arafat’s security services, which Israel has linked to terrorist attacks. In particular, Naveh said, the CIA gave extensive help to the Palestinian General Intelligence Service in the West Bank, led by Tawfiq Tirawi. The Israeli report identified Tirawi and the West Bank Fatah chief, Marwan Barghouti, as Arafat’s right-hand men in overseeing terrorist plans and operations. Tirawi remains in his job; Barghouti was arrested by Israeli troops last month and has been under intensive Israeli interrogation. Now we see the USA has been training terrorist too! Where will this stop? If president Bush is a man of his word he should start bombing the CIA HQ without delay and then the White House. No one who supports terrorists should go unpunished. (So, can we move this to the Pit? Pretty please?) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/22 "2002-05-06T17:04:47Z")
Not only that but Israel refuses to deal with Arafat because he is a known terrorist and yet [the USA endorses Arafat](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37253-2002May5.html). ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/23 "2002-05-06T17:30:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > Well, hmm.How do we know this? [that Europe has been donating money] From **Gigobuster’s** cite above > [@](#): > > The European Union and the United States have been the biggest donors until now. > [@](#): > > How do we know [that Europe allowed their money to be used for weapons]? Becasue Europe never asked for an accounhtinhg, never discovered trhat Arafat was supporting the al Acksa Brigates, and continuede to hold Arafat in high regard. > [@](#): > > About as much as the US deserves for supporting the IRA, probably. Yes, I think that’s a good analogy. Dupes, but not criminals. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/24 "2002-05-06T17:41:14Z")
well, **december** your point seems to be that people who donate money to organizations may be held personally responsible for all actions that individual members of that organization may do. Then, we’ll have to open up quite a few new prisions, since by that logic, anyone who’s donated $$ to the Catholic Church would also be held responsible for the sexual abuse of minors committed by a small number of priests; any employer who has an employee who commits a crime would also be held liable for that crime, all family members of criminals would also be held criminally responsible, etc. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/25 "2002-05-07T03:37:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*well, **december** your point seems to be that people who donate money to organizations may be held personally responsible for all actions that individual members of that organization may do. > > Then, we’ll have to open up quite a few new prisions, since by that logic, anyone who’s donated $$ to the Catholic Church would also be held responsible for the sexual abuse of minors committed by a small number of priests… \*\* The Pope didn’t order priests to commit sexual abuse. But Arafat DID order people working for him to commit terrorist acts, and [he used European money to pay them](http://www.jpost.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/Full&cid=1020337092723). > [@](#): > > …the documents unequivocally prove Arafat’s direct involvement Ð as the “supreme leader” of his Fatah-based Aksa Martyrs Brigades Ð in scores of terror attacks against Israeli civilians over the past 18 months. > > Moreover, the report states that hundreds of Fatah activists operating in the Fatah’s military wing, the Tanzim, and the Aksa Martyrs Brigades, were in fact being paid by the EU’s $9 million monthly transfers to the PA. > > The EU’s funding, which the report states amounts to roughly 10% of the total PA current budget (and the Arab states’ $45 million monthly transfers) were funneled to terrorists by the PA “by integrating them in the list of national security employees, despite the fact that in practice they operated in the framework of local branches of the Tanzim and the Al Aksa military Brigades,” the report states. > > “The EU’s money was being used by Arafat to indirectly finance terror activities,” Naveh said. It seems to me that Europe has some degree of obligation to see that the money they donate is spent properly. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/26 "2002-05-07T05:09:12Z")
Yes, but the degree of Europe’s responsibility is shrinking, and so is your credibility **december**. Lets see that document again: “Moreover, the report states that hundreds of Fatah activists operating in the Fatah’s military wing, the Tanzim, and the Aksa Martyrs Brigades, were in fact being paid by the EU’s $9 million monthly transfers to the PA. “ THEN this line appears: “The EU’s money was being used by Arafat to indirectly finance terror activities,” Somehow, those statements taken together make me have reservations about that report. But let’s take it as good for the time being: I have to say that the EU INDIRECT responsibility amounts to 10%, and according to the document, not all that money was used in the terror activities. What many are saying december is that calling the EU dupes is really stretching credibility. A more truthful a statement is that the PA stole the money. Will you blame all donors when they are conned? That includes BTW the Bush administration (I am not holding my breath for **december** to deal with that one). And while this is a problem, it is even more important to realize that the Palestinians will still need help with or without Arafat. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/27 "2002-05-07T05:21:29Z")
Oh boy. By this logic old boy, the US is responsible for al-Qaeda and the Taleban. For any and all crimes committed by forces the US funded in Central America. For any actions Israel takes with money the US provides to the state for military purposes… making Chabra and Chatila US responsbility as well… Not to mention our funding -direct mind you, not indirect- of PA security forces. If one begins to think critically one should see the bankruptcy of the line of argumentation. Now, an object lesson. Why would it be, you suppose, that Israeli Gov’t is beating the Euro-funding Arafat/PA = funding terrorism drum (e.g. in this report) but passing over as silently as possible rather more direct CIA links to the PA security forces? Could it be for the political reasons that Europe has placed more pressure on Israel? Oh perish the thought. Never mind of course that the report is long on assertion, little on indisputable facts with a fine spice of interpretation of ambiguous documents. However, it does seem likely that Arafat’s people diverted funds into their ‘resistance’ campaign and Arafat either turned a blind eye to it or perhaps personally authorized. Indeed I would guess that leaving aside the smearing the Europeans angle, much of the report in the long run will turn out to be fairly valid. Big news? Certainly nice fodder for Sharon’s campaign to try to hand pick the P’s leadership, a quixotic campaign as he should have learned from his Lebanese intervention or for example from the failures of colonial powers to do the same in analogous circumstances. But only the P’s can select their leadership, and exiling Arafat, beating on the ‘extremists’ and keeping others in jail achieves exactely the opposite aim of strengthening moderates, although Sharon seems not to have grasped this. Rather he has rescued Arafat from himself. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Weman\_cdw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@David\_Weman\_cdw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Weman_cdw)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/28 "2002-05-07T06:42:02Z")
This is topical. [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=7&u=/ap/20020506/ap\_on\_re\_mi\_ea/eu\_israel\_palestinians\_1](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=7&u=/ap/20020506/ap_on_re_mi_ea/eu_israel_palestinians_1) ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/29 "2002-05-07T06:47:51Z")
Why should Israel care about EU reaction: Israeli Balance of Trade 2001 ``` USA EU ``` Imports 20% 41% Exports 53% 26% Israel has very favourable trade status based on its acceptance into the European economic area. If this was withdrawn, there would be major problems for Israel. The EU has made it clear that maintaining this status involves not going outside EU restrictions on potential actions. Of course, the USA would never use trade as a lever to obtain its requirements over other nations’ actions. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/30 "2002-05-07T07:32:06Z")
December, Do you accept that the US has also funded the PA? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/31 "2002-05-07T09:47:53Z")
\>\> Europe has been donating money to Arafat. Arafat used some of that money to pay for terrorist attacks against Israel. The Europeans donors allowed their donaitons to be used to pay for suicide bombs. **december** , we should take your word for that? I say that is not true. Let me rephrase that just to make sure you get it. I say that is a _lie_. Can you back it up with anything credible? (Not with the kind of crappy “evidence” you usually use. Israel’s minister Danny Naveh has made that accusation without anything to subtantiate it. Immediately Gunnar Wiegand, spokesman for Chris Patten (EU’s minister for foreign affairs) said it was not true and demanded any kind of supporting proof so it could be examined. None has been produced so far. Weigand said help which is strictly earmarked for specific projects and has strict control mechanisms. Then there is General funding help which is done through the IMF by many countries, including the USA. The EU contributes 10 million Euros per month to this program. So, any accusation that the EU is directly or indirectly funding terrorism can be just as well leveled towards the USA. No, it can be _better_ applied to the USA who are training Arafat’s people. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/32 "2002-05-07T12:12:52Z")
From **CDW’s** cite > [@](#): > > The allegations made by the government of Israel are serious," Wiegand said… Note that the EU disagrees with some posters on this thread. They say these are “serious.” allegations. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \*Israel’s minister Danny Naveh has made that accusation without anything to subtantiate it. That’s what he claimed, all right. > [@](#): > > Wiegand said that the Israeli claims lacked evidence adding that the EU would be open to investigate such allegations “as soon as Israel provides documentary evidence and shares it with us.” > > “The European Commission (news - web sites) has imposed very stringent conditionalities throughout its programs and assistance it provides,” Wiegand said. “The money essentially serves to support education … and other essential services.” Farther down, the same article says Israel has compiled 91 pages of evidence that they’ve shown to President Bush. How can the EU know that “the claims lacked evidence,” since they haven’t seen the 91 pages of evidence? They are blustering. > [@](#): > > So, any accusation that the EU is directly or indirectly funding terrorism can be just as well leveled towards the USA. I agree. However, there is some indication that the US is now plannjing to live up to its obligations, while the EU is still in denial. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/33 "2002-05-07T12:43:16Z")
Perhaps we should open out this debate somewhat…anyone have any idea how much funding the US has given to the IRA in the last thirty years…? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/34 "2002-05-07T13:46:25Z")
I know this is pointless, but I’ll try. First, to repeat myself: December, do you accept that the US has also given funding to the PA? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > **How can the EU know that “the claims lacked evidence,” since they haven’t seen the 91 pages of evidence? They are blustering.** Are you joking here? Israel makes claims without evidence, EU asks for evidence, none is given, EU makes statement. In what is this blustering? I have a 91 page document proving that you’re the love child of Adolf Hitler and Osama Bin Laden. If you say that this claim lacks evidence, then you’re blustering. Does that seem fair, December? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/35 "2002-05-07T15:24:57Z")
I direct you all to this editorial by Chris Patten, EU Comm. for external affairs, and long time America supporter: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42401-2002May6.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42401-2002May6.html) By the way _december_ for the EU to say these are serious allegations is not to agree with you, rather the EU is indicating that the accusation itself is serious. That is if I accuse december of race baiting and hidden racism, you might respond, those are serious allegations, provide proof. I think anyone with an ordinary level of reading comprehension, such as yourself, should be able to understand that. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/36 "2002-05-07T15:27:08Z")
I disagree with some of Collounsbury’s reasoning. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > Oh boy. > > By this logic old boy, the US is responsible for al-Qaeda and the Taleban. > > For any and all crimes committed by forces the US funded in Central America. > > For any actions Israel takes with money the US provides to the state for military purposes… making Chabra and Chatila US responsbility as well… Let’s look at C’s apparent logic: \*Premise 1. The EU allegations are comparable to some other allegations about the US. Premise 2. The US is always blameless. Concluson: Therefore the EU is blameless.\* The Conclusion would follow from these two premises. However, Premise #1 is unproved and Premise #2 is false IMHO. > [@](#): > > Collounbury: If one begins to think critically one should see the bankruptcy of the line of argumentation. The EU disagrees. They say the allegations are “serious.” > [@](#): > > Now, an object lesson. > > Why would it be, you suppose, that Israeli Gov’t is beating the Euro-funding Arafat/PA = funding terrorism drum (e.g. in this report) but passing over as silently as possible rather more direct CIA links to the PA security forces? Could it be for the political reasons that Europe has placed more pressure on Israel? Oh perish the thought. Suppositions are interesting, but they do not take the place of facts. > [@](#): > > Never mind of course that the report is long on assertion, little on indisputable facts with a fine spice of interpretation of ambiguous documents. Have you seen the report, **Collounbury**? Are you quoting a reliable source who has seen it? Cite, please. > [@](#): > > However, it does seem likely that Arafat’s people diverted funds into their ‘resistance’ campaign and Arafat either turned a blind eye to it or perhaps personally authorized. Indeed I would guess that leaving aside the smearing the Europeans angle, much of the report in the long run will turn out to be fairly valid. “It does seem likely” – weasel words when one doesn’t have the facts. > [@](#): > > But only the P’s can select their leadership, and exiling Arafat, beating on the ‘extremists’ and keeping others in jail achieves exactely the opposite aim of strengthening moderates, although Sharon seems not to have grasped this. Rather he has rescued Arafat from himself. This may or may not be reasonable, but it’s independent of the OP. > [@](#): > > **Gary Kumquat** > I have a 91 page document proving that you’re the love child of Adolf Hitler and Osama Bin Laden. **Gary** , this statement implies that Israel’s 91 pages of evidence can be presumed to be nonsense. What is your evidence to support this POV? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/37 "2002-05-07T15:27:26Z")
I direct you all to this editorial by Chris Patten, EU Comm. for external affairs, and long time America supporter: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42401-2002May6.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42401-2002May6.html) A quote > [@](#): > > As a British minister I used to try to persuade American congressmen to take a tougher line on the funding of Irish terrorism. I would argue – usually to polite disagreement, I recall ruefully – that terrorist acts were always wrong. I would begin my set piece by saying that the beginning of wisdom in Ireland was to recognize that there were two authentic cries of pain and rage. Well I still believe it. And the same applies in the Middle East. > > It is not anti-Semitic to say that, any more than it is to suggest that we will do our common campaign against terrorism irreparable damage if we allow it to be hijacked by Likud. Heaven help Israel, heaven help Palestine, heaven help all of us, if this mad and grotesque assault on reasoned debate continues. But heaven, I fear, will have its work cut out By the way _december_ for the EU to say these are serious allegations is not to agree with you, rather the EU is indicating that the accusation itself is serious. That is if I accuse december of race baiting and hidden racism, you might respond, those are serious allegations, provide proof. I think anyone with an ordinary level of reading comprehension, such as yourself, should be able to understand that. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/38 "2002-05-07T15:39:52Z")
Well Israel has to show the evidence before the EU can do anything From [http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle\_east/story.jsp?story=292517](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=292517) > [@](#): > > Gunnar Wiegand, spokesman for Chris Patten, European Commissioner for external relations, said the Israeli claims would be taken seriously and investigated “as soon as the government of Israel shares its documentary evidence with us – something that is not yet the case”. > [@](#): > > Officials in Brussels see the latest allegations as part of a political strategy to persuade President Bush that Mr Arafat is a supporter of terrorism and therefore should be excluded from Middle East peace talks. What amazes me **december** is that you seem to be able to accept as fact that the countries in the EU are anti-Semitic and actually fund terrorists but on the other hand are 100% that Israel has never done anything wrong with respect to Palestine. How come such cynicism and distrust on one side and complete support on the other ? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/39 "2002-05-07T15:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\*I direct you all to this editorial by Chris Patten, EU Comm. for external affairs, and long time America supporter: > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42401-2002May6.html\*\*](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42401-2002May6.html**) From C’s cite > [@](#): > > Anyway, what should we conclude about Europe from this pustulation? When a couple of years back there was an outbreak of arson attacks against African American churches in the United States, should we have leaped to the conclusion that the Ku Klux Klan was heading for the White House? This is a hijack, but it leads to a point I want to make. Let’s compare the current wave of violence against Jews in Europe to the US church arson in the US. The treatment here was entirely different. The President and the media made a huge fuss. They made it clear that this would not be tolerated. Extra law enforcement people made special efforts, and they arrested almost all of the arsonists. As it turned out, the arson cases were not due to a racist attack. So, in summary, **the US made a far greater effort against a non-existant series of racist events than Europe is making against a real series of anti-Semitie events.** ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438/40 "2002-05-07T15:48:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\ ***Gary** , this statement implies that Israel’s 91 pages of evidence can be presumed to be nonsense. What is your evidence to support this POV? \*\* And yet another piece of inspired misinterpretation from December. The actual quote: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*Are you joking here? Israel makes claims without evidence, EU asks for evidence, none is given, EU makes statement. In what is this blustering? I have a 91 page document proving that you’re the love child of Adolf Hitler and Osama Bin Laden. If you say that this claim lacks evidence, then you’re blustering. Does that seem fair, December? \*\* Let me try to summarise as simply as I can. The EU says that Israel’s claims “lack evidence”. You say this is “blustering”. I try to demonstrate why you can accuse some claims of lacking evidence without blustering. You miss the point…again. And I will ask the question for a third time:\*\*do you accept that the US has also given funding to the PA? \*\* Yes or No? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-blame-does-europe-deserve-for-financially-supporting-suicide-bombers/107438.md?page=3)