# How Much Do Outdoor Animals Suffer in the Cold? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610 "2014-02-05T22:19:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/21 "2014-02-06T18:22:15Z")
Humans don’t mind going out in the cold with a barenaked face. Maybe its just what you’re used to. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/22 "2014-02-06T18:47:19Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I doubt that they would suffer much if the degree of cold is typical – such a distraction would be selected out because it would affect their ability to hunt, mate etc. That’s my thinking on it. From an evolutionary perspective, if typical conditions cause sufficient misery to reduce effectiveness at necessary tasks, that would get selected against. It seems to me that “suffer” could be defined as “be miserable enough to distract from tasks.” Contrast that with discomfort: a certain amount of discomfort can encourage one to do what’s necessary (when cold, move around; when hungry, find food, etc.) Only at the extremes where you’re likely to die from the issue anyway, would extreme discomfort not be selected against. > [@Pjen](#): > > Animals lack much of the cognitive ability to experience cold (and much else) as fully self conscious humans are able to. That sounds like conjecture. > [@](#): > > They lack our ability to see alternatives or believe that there could be an alternative. This is probably a benefit to them as anxiety and ability to see that it could be otherwise is something that increases human discomfort. However, I suspect you’re right here: our misery can be compounded by our understanding of our situation, and we wouldn’t expect that in other animals. > [@](#): > > Much reaction to distress is learned ( think of children playing in the cold until they are blue, where adults would worry about consequences). While I agree this is true, I don’t believe it prohibits animals from intense suffering. I’m absolutely convinced that animals can suffer intensely. I just doubt it’s a typical part of their ordinary existence. I suspect it’s likely near the ends of their lives, though (depending on the cause). Nature shows little compassionate. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/23 "2014-02-06T18:58:38Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Animals lack much of the cognitive ability to experience cold (and much else) as fully self conscious humans are able to. They lack our ability to see alternatives or believe that there could be an alternative. This is probably a benefit to them as anxiety and ability to see that it could be otherwise is something that increases human discomfort. Much reaction to distress is learned ( think of children playing in the cold until they are blue, where adults would worry about consequences). in winter animals will find a sunny spot to lay in if they don’t need shelter from the wind. even if it takes climbing or moving to a spot otherwise not used. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/24 "2014-02-06T19:00:25Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Of course, horses and cows are much more massive than humans so I’d expect them to keep a warmer core temperature in the cold. We have a greater surface area to mass ratio so we lose heat faster. During snowfalls it is amazing to see the horses with several inches of snow accumulated on their backs. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/25 "2014-02-06T19:19:38Z")
Well there was an early blizzard in the Dakotas this last October where an estimated 75,000 to 100,000 cows froze to death. I don’t think they were very happy about it. I would call that suffering. > **[About 75,000 Cattle Died in South Dakota's October 4th Blizzard](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/c-75000-cattle-died-in-so_b_4088824)** > > About 75,000 Cattle Died in South Dakota's October 4th Blizzard > **[Care2 is the world's largest social network for good, a community of over 40...](https://www.care2.com/)** > > Largest online community empowering people to lead a healthy and green lifestyle while taking action on important causes such as human rights, animal welfare and global warming. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/26 "2014-02-06T19:35:02Z")
Birds do not move south because of an intolerance for cold, they move south because frigid winter conditions make it difficult or impossible to find food. Canada Geese will remain in a given spot in the fall until their access to forage freezes over, then they move further south. There are a number of northern places such as power plants, that have water-cooled facilities, and deliver a warm outflow the year round. Such environments now often have a vigorous population of birds remaining much further north than they normally would have. Gulls around Niagara Falls are a good example. The air temperature remains just as cold for them, but the warmer water keeps a small area icefree, where they can still feed, and seem happy to do so. The above applies to movement of boreal resident species, and is not intended to be an explanation of migration to tropical wintering grounds, which is grounded in long-standing instinct, rather than opportunism for choosing a wintering habitat according to conditions… ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/27 "2014-02-06T19:47:02Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Driving past some farms into work this morning, the horses seemed to be **having a grand time** jumping around in the snow despite the -10F temperatures. Doing little hops and then big serpentine looking jumps culminating in big back kicks. Maybe the horses see it a bit differently than you do?—Instead of “having a grand time”,maybe they were running and jumping furiously because they were cold and trying to warm up? ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/28 "2014-02-06T19:53:25Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I’m not a farmer, but don’t herd and flock animals such as cows and sheep typically huddle closely together for warmth. Sand bunkers on golf courses exist as a remnant of early golf courses, where sheep would for huddle for shelter against the harsh Scottish coast. Also, just last month in the very cold January I saw geese kind of huddled but amazingly they all wanted to face directly into the wind. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/29 "2014-02-06T19:58:33Z")
What I take from this thread… Humans are wimps 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/30 "2014-02-06T20:11:52Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Also, just last month in the very cold January I saw geese kind of huddled but amazingly they all wanted to face directly into the wind. I suspect a wind at their backs might spread their feathers in a way that would cause heat loss. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/31 "2014-02-06T20:15:58Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > Humans are wimps 😃 [Not all of them](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/83/why-do-eskimo-people-stay-there): “It has been reported that some Arctic natives could work for considerable periods in subzero temperatures with their bare hands, and would strip to the waist and complain of the heat if the temperature rose above 40 degrees.” ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/32 "2014-02-06T20:22:12Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Animals lack much of the cognitive ability to experience cold (and much else) as fully self conscious humans are able to. They lack our ability to see alternatives or believe that there could be an alternative. This is probably a benefit to them as anxiety and ability to see that it could be otherwise is something that increases human discomfort. Much reaction to distress is learned ( think of children playing in the cold until they are blue, where adults would worry about consequences). > > Remember the adage that only humans foresee their own death. I think a claim like that would require some evidence, or at least some explanation, given animal behaviors such as: - Canines and birds (with their own kind) cuddling together in the cold - Moose standing in shallow but freezing cold rivers while being pursued by wolves who don’t go in - Reptiles moving into the sun - Birds sunning with their wings open - Cats preferring fireplaces and the crooks of your knees, your pelvis, etc. - Digging down into the snow (a generally good insulator) to make a den These are all behavioral adaptations, not just uncontrollable physical reactions like shivering or puffing up your fur. They are non-internal means of thermoregulation and require the ability to at least understand that “If I do this or go there or stay here, I will be less cold”. If these are unconscious things, they should be able to do them in their sleep, but they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/33 "2014-02-06T21:43:45Z")
> **[Online bird guide, bird ID help, life history, bird sounds from Cornell](https://blog.allaboutbirds.org/2014/01/16/how-birds-survive-the-cold-feathers-food-warmth/)** > > Featured > > > > > > > > > Browse All Articles > > > > > > Sign Up for Our eNews > > > > Get helpful advice, inspiring stories, and beautiful images and sounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bird ID Skills > > > > > > > More Bird ID Articles > > > > > > > Feeding Birds > > > > > > > More Feeding Birds... ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/34 "2014-02-06T22:29:58Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Maybe the horses see it a bit differently than you do?—Instead of “having a grand time”,maybe they were running and jumping furiously because they were cold and trying to warm up? I’m no horseologist but I’ve spent a lot of time around them growing up and they seemed to legitimately enjoy playing in the snow. Obviously since we can’t talk to them, there’ll always be room to disagree with the interpretation of their behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/35 "2014-02-06T22:39:46Z")
Well the test would be if they prefer to stay out and play in the snow when they have a choice of coming inside. Kayaker suggested that horses like being outside in very cold weather (though he/she didn’t address snow specifically). Weird thing about this is that some people put blankets on horses when it gets cold. I’ve read somewhere that this is because horses are naturally equipped for cold by growing a longer winter coat, but that domesticated horses are kept shorn (this is in turn because domesticated horses are used for intense bursts of activity which makes them sweat and then turn cold when they calm down). But that would seem to suggest that they should be cold when shorn. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/36 "2014-02-06T23:10:23Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Kids playing out in the cold all day is largely because they are having fun, and adults too can be oblivious to the cold if they can remember how to do that. > > Meanwhile children don’t seem to need to learn consequences to feel distress; they certainly can feel pain long before any understanding of what it means. > > (putting aside for a moment the issue I mentioned before of how do we _know_ another organism feels pain, as opposed to just acting a certain way?) “Pain” is a complex construction. The level of pain experienced is massively affected by the way that it is psychologically framed- for instance if people feel in control of their pain (even when not) their pain threshold increases. Humans have a far greater understanding of the future problems ( including potential permanent harm and death) than any other animal and this added understanding would make the experience of pain considerably more global than for lower animals leading to a different reaction to pain. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/37 "2014-02-06T23:12:50Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > in winter animals will find a sunny spot to lay in if they don’t need shelter from the wind. even if it takes climbing or moving to a spot otherwise not used. No problem with that. There is a difference in maximising comfort and reacting to pain in a manner that a self conscious being does. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/38 "2014-02-06T23:16:50Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > I think a claim like that would require some evidence, or at least some explanation, given animal behaviors such as: > > - Canines and birds (with their own kind) cuddling together in the cold > - Moose standing in shallow but freezing cold rivers while being pursued by wolves who don’t go in > - Reptiles moving into the sun > - Birds sunning with their wings open > - Cats preferring fireplaces and the crooks of your knees, your pelvis, etc. > - Digging down into the snow (a generally good insulator) to make a den > > These are all behavioral adaptations, not just uncontrollable physical reactions like shivering or puffing up your fur. They are non-internal means of thermoregulation and require the ability to at least understand that “If I do this or go there or stay here, I will be less cold”. If these are unconscious things, they should be able to do them in their sleep, but they don’t. There is no doubt that animals will act in their best interests. What they lack is the ability to frame such experiences in the way that self-aware humans are able to see their current position and its eventual outcome. It is said that humans are the only animals that really know their own fate. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/39 "2014-02-06T23:49:26Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > There is no doubt that animals will act in their best interests. What they lack is the ability to frame such experiences in the way that self-aware humans are able to see their current position and its eventual outcome. It is said that humans are the only animals that really know their own fate. While poetic, is that really true? Elephants and primates apparently grieve for their lost ones. Cattle will become agitated upon seeing others of their herd sent to slaughter, even if the death is not visually apparent to them. Ravens will gang up on antisocial group members with a clear progression of punishments, ranging from gentle dissuasion to gang murder and eye-gouging of especially disliked birds (which they would not otherwise do to dead ravens). Groups of buffalo have been known to call for help from a herd and to return to a straggler, rescuing them predators. Beyond death, chimps plan and scheme with their peers, both against one another and towards human researchers. Ravens can plan their actions to deceive others in their group, as well as learning and reenacting complex chains of events that lead to food procurement. These suggest at least some rudimentary notion of “X will happen if I do or don’t do Y”, beyond the basic flight-or-flight fear instinct. And some of these behaviors, at least on the surface, seem to exhibit more awareness of the eventuality of death than your average human child might. If you’re going to say that it is indeed the case that animals cannot comprehend their fates (which I take to mean that they cannot establish a clear mental chain of causation between action X and consequence Y), please provide some evidence or at least some explanations. Maybe it’s a matter of degree – this pack of wolves might not recognize their greater ecological significance to the Yellowstone biome, for example – but many humans also seem to exhibit the same lack of introspection and awareness of long-term cause-and-effect chains. I don’t know, because I’m not an animal psychology expert, but your claim just seems to be a very powerful one backed up by rather weak assertions. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610/40 "2014-02-06T23:50:33Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > “Pain” is a complex construction. The level of pain experienced is massively affected by the way that it is psychologically framed- for instance if people feel in control of their pain (even when not) their pain threshold increases. Humans have a far greater understanding of the future problems ( including potential permanent harm and death) than any other animal and this added understanding would make the experience of pain considerably more global than for lower animals leading to a different reaction to pain. A _different_ reaction to pain is pretty uncontentious since even individuals of the same species appear to have a somewhat different reaction. It was your earlier point that “much reaction to distress is learned” that I was disputing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-outdoor-animals-suffer-in-the-cold/680610.md?page=3)