# How much do theater companies pay in royalties to put on a play **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 5, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799 "2005-08-05T22:29:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/21 "2005-08-06T16:06:18Z")
I wonder how much he made on _Cats_? ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/22 "2005-08-07T04:54:37Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Sadly, _Chess_ has not been the money maker it should have been. Mamma Mia is a phenomenal hit, with 12 companies all over the world (and mroe planned). > > ABBA made a lot of money, but artists and composers are only paid once for each record/CD sold. “Grand rights” are paid every time a song is performed, which is usually 8 times a week, sometimes for years. During Phantom’s heyday, Lloyd Webber was making $5,000 a day from the show! Nice work if you can get it. I respectfully disagree. As I said, I used to work for Samuel French, who owns the performing rights to _Chess._ And I’m happy to report (because I love it) that we consistently sell it to regional theatres all over the world. Trust me, Benny and Bjorn are making plenty on the show. Granted, _Mamma Mia!_ is a huge blockbuster and will eventually make more than _Chess_, but it’s certainly not a disappoinment as far as ongoing residuals are concerned. And **Mr. Blue Sky** , ALW’s gross earnings for _Cats_ is in the \*billions. \* Yes, you read that right, and no, I am not exaggerating. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/23 "2005-08-08T12:06:31Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > I respectfully disagree. As I said, I used to work for Samuel French, who owns the performing rights to _Chess._ And I’m happy to report (because I love it) that we consistently sell it to regional theatres all over the world. Trust me, Benny and Bjorn are making plenty on the show. Granted, _Mamma Mia!_ is a huge blockbuster and will eventually make more than _Chess_, but it’s certainly not a disappoinment as far as ongoing residuals are concerned. > > And **Mr. Blue Sky** , ALW’s gross earnings for _Cats_ is in the \*billions. \* Yes, you read that right, and no, I am not exaggerating. While _Chess_ has made money (and don’t forget lyrist Tim Rice), I’m sure you’ll agree it hasn’t been the blockbuster that it deserves to be. CATS has made enormous money for Sir Andrew and Eliot’s estate, but Phantom put him in a separate at-the-top catagory. If I had to make a list of the top five ALW money-making works, it would read: Phantom of the Opera CATS Jesus Christ Superstar Starlight Express Evita ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/24 "2005-08-08T13:03:04Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > CATS has made enormous money for Sir Andrew and Eliot’s estate, but Phantom put him in a separate at-the-top catagory. If I had to make a list of the top five ALW money-making works, it would read: > > Phantom of the Opera > CATS > Jesus Christ Superstar > Starlight Express > Evita Not Joseph? That show drives me crazy, but I’ve put it on three times with different comapnies in the past six years. I’d bet it’s one of the most popular shows for regional theatres to put on. Certainly with each passing day the amount it’s brought in for ALW grows closer and closer to Starlight Express, and will probably surpass it, no? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/25 "2005-08-08T13:22:57Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Not Joseph? That show drives me crazy, but I’ve put it on three times with different comapnies in the past six years. I’d bet it’s one of the most popular shows for regional theatres to put on. Certainly with each passing day the amount it’s brought in for ALW grows closer and closer to Starlight Express, and will probably surpass it, no? The only thing keeping Joseph out of the top five is that it hasn’t had many good, long runs. Starlight Express ran in London, Las Vegas, and Germany for over a decade each place. When you’re making money every time your songs are sung, that’s beaucoup bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Only_Mostly_Dead)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/26 "2005-08-08T15:04:53Z")
I keep holding my breath that I’ll see a professional (or talented amateur) production of _Chess_ in the DC area. I’m really rather surprised by **DooWahDiddy** ’s assertion that it is a popularly performed show because it is musically pretty difficult, thematically quite tough to act all the psychological aspects adequately, and just a small cast to boot (not very good for inclusive community theaters). Really, I don’t imagine I’ll be seeing it in any respectable capacity any time soon. Love triangles paralleled with Cold War conflict is not a genre begging for revival. And it’s just too hard a show for casual community theater to do justice. I do love the frequency with which _Chess_ comes up in Musical threads on these boards. Even if it is usually **Annie-Xmas** saying it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/27 "2005-08-08T22:52:01Z")
Hey, I didn’t say they were _good_ productions. 😉 Plus, the only version that is available for production is the American version, which most say has a horrendous book. The London version is not available because Tim Rice is considering a revival… Good news, no? Oh but wait, he’s been saying that for 20 years… ☹ But I think the songs themselves are so popular nowadays that it’s become a cult classic, hence the regional productions around the country. The best thing ever was the concert version fund-raiser a few years ago, which had Adam Pascal, Josh Groban, Raul Esparza, Sutton Foster, and so many more, not to mention a huge orchestra and choir. One of my best theatre memories. On preview, sorry for the hijack, **Mr. Blue Sky**! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/28 "2005-08-08T23:39:27Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > On preview, sorry for the hijack, **Mr. Blue Sky**! No problem. This has all been very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/29 "2005-08-09T00:36:00Z")
Is there a general policy on recent plays? Suppose my college theatre or local professional theatre wanted to do a production of _Spamalot_. Would it be outright impossible because of some exclusivness deal in New York or would it just be that the royalty fees are so high that nobody would choose to do it? Or are there twenty different versions of _Spamalot_ going on as I write this but I haven’t heard of them because all the attention is on the Brodway show? ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/30 "2005-08-09T00:51:01Z")
Plays and musicals are generally not available for amateur production until about 2 years after their premiere. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but I’m sure _Spamalot_ has not been picked up by anyone yet, because it’s so new (and popular). However, I can tell you with 99% certainly that the company who will end up with the performing rights will be [MTI](http://www.mtishows.com), so keep checking their website to see when it becomes available. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/31 "2005-08-09T02:21:33Z")
There’s also a restriction for rights to currently running shows (shows whose rights are being let out) preventing any productions within a certain distance of the original, isn’t there, **DooWahDiddy**? Something like a 75-mile radius of the Broadway theater it’s currently in. Or was I misled by a high-school drama teacher? (I am also a big ‘Chess’ fan, though I’ve only ever heard the original album, the one that preceeded the London production.) ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/32 "2005-08-09T03:35:37Z")
Yup. And sometimes, depending on the popularity of the show and the crankiness of the author/agent, that restriction will extend over the entire U.S., not just a close proximity to NYC or wherever. But interestingly enough, the show doesn’t even have to be currently running anywhere for there to be restrictions on performing it. “Greater Tuna” is a popular play, but the authors are very strict on who gets to perform it so it rarely gets approved, and that’s never been on Broadway (or anywhere comparable, as far as I know). And then of course, when revivals come to New York (like the recent “Sly Fox” and “Our Town”), those restrictions come into play with the radius you mentioned (although the exact milage differs from case to case). But, not wanting to put concern in any first-time producers’ minds, I should clarify that of the _thousands_ of plays out there (Samuel French alone has over 6,000, not to mention Dramatists Play Service, Dramatic Publishing, Bakers Plays, etc.), only a small handful have restrictions on them at all. Most playwrights _want_ to see their work produced, and don’t stipulate any restrictions on their work. And **postcards** , you should really check out the London recording of _Chess_, with Murray Head. IMO it is far better… the lyrics are different, and some of the music is too, and I just think the cast knocks it out of the park. **Annie X-mas** , do you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/33 "2005-08-09T12:27:09Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > **Annie X-mas** , do you agree? Definitely. Though “Someone Else’s Story” was added for the Broadway production, and I love that song. The Danish touring cast is considered the definitive English version. Unfortunately, only one pressing of the first version was done, before the rights to five songs were questioned. All subsequent pressings had these songs cut, and a Bonus “Remix” of One Night In Bangkok added. The first one sold out quickly; if you can find it at any price, buy it. The Swedish version is also really good. Chess? Tim Rice has been talking about bringing back Blondel! I’m one of the few people on the planet who has the CD of this show, and I absolutely love it (I also have a CDR of the live Austrian show!). I wish old Tim would do these revivals. ---
**Author:** ![Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Only_Mostly_Dead)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799/34 "2005-08-09T13:13:57Z")
Now I admit I’m confused. I own what I believe to be the most common version: [London Concept Cast](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000002GLR/qid=1123593165/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_sbs_2/104-9515584-0354340?v=glance&s=music&n=507846) with Murray Head. I thought this was the version that **postcards** was referring to. I’ve listened to, and don’t particularly like, the [Original Broadway Cast](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000002WBG/ref=pd_sim_music_1/104-9515584-0354340?v=glance&s=music&n=507846) with David Carroll. Of course, I’ve yet to hear the mythical Danish Touring Cast that I always hear **Annie-Xmas** raving about. The [Swedish Concert Cast](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000006XK8/qid=1123593336/sr=8-2/ref=__2/104-9515584-0354340?v=glance&s=music) looks promising, though. Pretty hefty pricetag. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-theater-companies-pay-in-royalties-to-put-on-a-play/315799.md?page=1)