# How much do you hate the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729 "2003-07-24T22:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/101 "2003-07-27T00:21:54Z")
The gassing of the Kurds was done with the full knowledge and backslapping support of the Reagan administration. And seeing how the invasion was completely unjustified, unprovoked and illegal I would say that the slaughter of ten thousand people for no reason is every bit as bad as anything Hussein did. How many civilians have been killed in Afghanistan, 5000? 6000? Bin Laden is an amateur compared to the thugs in the Bush administration, and the Bush administration is _rightfully_ despised by the rest of the world (except for that leg-humping poodle across the pond). This is NOT the same thing as hating the US or hating Americans, although i think we do have more than our share of boorish, jingoistic morons. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/102 "2003-07-27T00:30:11Z")
While it is entirely clear that neither the Bush nor the Reagan administrations did nothing as regards the Kurds or the Shia that merits approval, and, indeed, represents all that is inhuman and repulsive about _realpolitik_, I don’t think “backslapping support” is a fair characterization. We don’t need spin, Comrade **Diogenes**. We got facts. Let _them_ spin. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/103 "2003-07-27T00:30:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ChaosGod \* > \*\*Hate the US ? Why on earth would ANYONE hate the US? > > > [@](#): > > > > _A 12-year-old Iraqi boy who captured hearts worldwide after he lost both arms and was left orphaned in a US missile strike will soon travel from Kuwait to Britain to be fitted with artificial limbs. > > Abbas, who was admitted to a Kuwaiti hospital on April 16 with burns to more than 40 percent of his body …_\*\* > > [http://sify.com/news/international/fullstory.php?id=13209857](http://sify.com/news/international/fullstory.php?id=13209857) \*\* I only noticed this in **Whack-a-Mole** ’s post, is this link to a story on the “injured Iraqi boy” or to the more recent story of the three American soldiers who have been killed in a grenade attack? This can’t be **ChaosGod** ’s intention, so is _Sify News_ re-using story IDs? Surely not? ---
**Author:** ![ummm.yeahh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ummm.yeahh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ummm.yeahh)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/104 "2003-07-27T00:53:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by greenteeth \* > \*\* > People hate us for the same reason that people hate the NY Yankees, the Dallas Cowboys (let’s not consider the last few years), and the Japanese Little-League all stars. It’s because we dominate. We also know that we dominate. > \*\* I guess I really agree with this too. And I’m not saying this to be arrogant. I just think that no matter what… people are gonna bitch. Don’t get involved, we’re heartless isolationists. Get involved, we’re trying to expand the kingdom. If it was China and not the US, people would be saying the same things about them. (Except the whole communism thing :D) Am I right? ---
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/105 "2003-07-27T01:05:51Z")
I like it - heaps! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/106 "2003-07-27T02:11:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*And seeing how the invasion was completely unjustified, unprovoked and illegal I would say that the slaughter of ten thousand people for no reason is every bit as bad as anything Hussein did. > > How many civilians have been killed in Afghanistan, 5000? 6000? > \*\* You have a seriously warped view if you consider what the US did as “every bit as bad as anything Hussein did.” 10,000 versus a quarter million (probably much more)? Of those 10,000 a great majority were military personnel while of the quarter million the vast majority were civilians. Of those quarter million many were killed with poison gas and then you still have the more conventional bombs and guns. Finally, the real total is a good deal more than 250,000 as that number accounts for only a four year timespan and doesn’t account for anyone else besides Kurds that Saddam was responsible for killing. None of this makes the US justified in what they did but you cannot possibly say the US is ‘as bad’ as Saddam Hussein no matter how hard you want to spin it. As for Afghanistan so what? I am unaware of any country that seriously opposed the US in going after Afghanistan. It seems to be generally understood that if you directly attack another country it is hard to call ‘no-fair’ when that country responds by attacking you back. The Taliban was clearly harboring and abetting those who attacked the US making them culpable as well. They were given the opportunity to toss Al Qaeda out and they didn’t. That civilians get caught in the crossfire is sad and regrettable but the US is better than any other country in history (including the US itself if you go back to WWII) at at least attempting to minimize and avoid civilian casualties. Unless you want to argue that war is wrong in ALL circumstances but that’s a different topic. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/107 "2003-07-27T02:27:47Z")
**TG UNWASHED** -\> The story about the boy is about 2/3 down the article. I should have mentioned that. sorry. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/108 "2003-07-27T02:39:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ummm… yeahh… \* > \*\*Thanks for your posts. I have to admit my original post was out of frustration. I just look at the subjects of so many posts and they’re just complaining. I think a requirement of anyone who posts should be that if your going to complain, then provide a solution. Ripping someone is easy, but give me your solution. \*\* We pay politicians the big bucks to come up with solutions. The rest are just trying to make a living. Not me, of course, I’m retired. I don’t have any solutions and if I did have I would talk to any of you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/109 "2003-07-27T02:44:07Z")
I didn’t say the US was as bad as Saddam, I said the Bush administration was a bad as Saddam. Killing innocent people for nothing is killing innocent people for nothing is killing innocent people for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/110 "2003-07-27T03:08:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I didn’t say the US was as bad as Saddam, I said the Bush administration was a bad as Saddam. Killing innocent people for nothing is killing innocent people for nothing is killing innocent people for nothing. \*\* Fine…I still disagree though. Maybe the motivation was just as flimsy but Saddam was embarked on ethnic cleansing…Bush was embarked on Saddam cleansing. Who’s worse? Hitler sending several million jews to the gas chamber or a skinhead that shoots a single jew (for no reason other than that they are jewish)? Both are despicable but one is worse than the other. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/111 "2003-07-27T04:33:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\*Fine…I still disagree though. Maybe the motivation was just as flimsy but Saddam was embarked on ethnic cleansing…Bush was embarked on Saddam cleansing. > > Who’s worse? Hitler sending several million jews to the gas chamber or a skinhead that shoots a single jew (for no reason other than that they are jewish)? Both are despicable but one is worse than the other. \*\* Ok, you have a point. Bush is not despicible on the magnitude that Saddam was but he’s despicible none the less. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/112 "2003-07-27T06:40:38Z")
I think that anyone who would support any president or other group of people unconditionally and want to silence dissent are the people who really hate America. Because inevitably such actions would lead to the destruction of America. Criticism, however, makes America thrive. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/113 "2003-07-27T07:35:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > I don’t think that **stick monkey** insinuated that Bush was the champion of Joe Average. Well then we disagree. He hasn’t clarified, so why don’t you drop it? > [@](#): > > Joe Average lives in the city. But if you have a system that disproportionately favors rural areas in terms of how much representation they have, and one guy’s platform is more sympathetic to rural sensibilities then that one has an advantage. Which is what **stick monkey** was saying. No, it wasn’t. And none of the examples you cited are anything that Bush made a point of in his campaign anyway. > [@](#): > > Don’t be so paranoid. Paranoid? I have no idea what you are talking about. (And neither do you.) ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/114 "2003-07-27T11:05:05Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by ummm… yeahh…_ > I don’t hate anyone. I’ve done humanitarian work in Europe, Haiti and most recently Mexico. I do not say this to brag at all. I, like the vast majority of Americans, are concerned for the well being of everyone. And I honestly think our present administration is as well. I know that much of what they’ve done has been controversial and I don’t agree with all of it. But come on, we’re doing our best. The reason for my OP was out of the frustration I felt. The people that we so often help are the ones who so often are the first to turn on us and it’s disheartening. (I am not trying to generalize) I meant no ill will but I’m getting sick of all this complaining. I mean, one week the Iraqi’s are praising us and embracing us and the next week they’re telling us to get out. If we left now all hell’d break loose. > > I met a Liberian guy a few weeks ago and we’ve had the chance to hang out a little. His whole family is still in Liberia in the middle of the fighting. I truly hope the US and the UN will work together for the people of Liberia. But how soon will it turn from “Thank you” to “Go home. You suck.”? I hate America about as much as you hate the rest of the world. Really, I’m not going to get into a “praise America” post. I’ve posted those before, and I’m sure you could find my thoughts on your country if you search for them. Try a thread I posted in IMHO a couple of months ago about going there for half a year. But I don’t feel like indulging people who post “tell me I’m good” threads. And for the record, I’d like to state that whenever I have an objection to U.S. foreign (or domestic, for that matter) policy, it has nothing to do with jealousy. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/115 "2003-07-27T12:39:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\ ***Tusculan** , I don’t mean to insult you, but this really is a very silly thing to allege. Try “sheer numbers of cultures”. The US is very diverse, but it’s not _that_ bloody diverse. \*\* No problem, **jjimm**. Reading this back in the cold hard light of day, it does seem silly. :o As I said, I wanted to avoid discussion on diversity, but I seem to step into it further with every post I make. Let’s get out of here before I’m going to spout even more nonsense. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/116 "2003-07-27T14:37:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chicago Faucet \* > I feel that those who are mocking this thread are quite jaded and cynical. Both of these are qualities that everyone should have in proportion, to some extent. But, like they say, everything in moderation - including moderation. \*\* Maybe because it is a thread worth mocking. Apparently “America” is the only country that can be summed up in “I hate/don’t hate”. If I started a “how much do you hate Afghanistan/Iraq/Mexico/Zimbabwe/wherever” thread I’d be laughed off the board. ---
**Author:** ![sajwalke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@sajwalke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sajwalke)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/117 "2003-07-27T15:55:47Z")
I don’t hate the USA, just the fuckwits in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/118 "2003-07-27T16:30:04Z")
**"I don’t hate the USA, just the fuckwits in charge." \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\__sajwalke_** Like they say,\*\* sajwalke\*\*,\*\* U **S** A\*\* love it or leave it. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729/119 "2003-07-27T16:36:15Z")
If I really hated the US, I’d praise GWB for the great job he’s doing. Keep up the good work! “… look dubya!, another terrorist under that stone! , quick! , cut down more freedoms!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-do-you-hate-the-usa/190729.md?page=5)