# How much does Arnold Schwartzenegger's legacy change with no T2?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 29, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115 "2009-08-29T02:48:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/1 "2009-08-29T02:48:36Z")
I know he was a star before T2 with Conan and the original Terminator but he permanently became the biggest action star of all time after T2 and I don’t think anyone will ever surpass him and may at best match him in total domination of the genre. His Conan fame was never massive and had died out before T2. T1 was just a great movie, but wasn’t a giant hit until T2 rose general awareness of the character in common Americans.
I think his launch into the stratosphere of stardom after T2 lead directly to his ability to attain governorship of California and has cemented him as one of the biggest stars in Hollywood history.
I think if T2 never happened he would have washed up like Sly, though Sly has had some decent success in the last couple of years.
What do you think?
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2009, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/2 "2009-08-29T06:38:30Z")
T2 came out in 1991. Movies after Terminator before T2
Red Sonja (1985) - action
Commando (1985) - action
Predator (1987) - action
The Running Man (1987) - action
Twins (1988) - comedy
Total Recall (1990) - action
Kindergarden Cop (1990) - comedy
These are all well known roles/films where Schwarzenegger was a star. He was a well known actor showing both action and comedic skills. I would not agree his Conan fame had died out by T2. He was already a large box office draw.
I don’t think T2 played any special role in his career. I think he could have gone on to do every one of the roles he had post T2 even if T2 had never been made.
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### Author:  [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/3 "2009-08-29T12:04:24Z")
> [@Irishman](#):
>
> T2 came out in 1991. Movies after Terminator before T2
>
> Red Sonja (1985) - action
> Commando (1985) - action
> Predator (1987) - action
> The Running Man (1987) - action
> Twins (1988) - comedy
> Total Recall (1990) - action
> Kindergarden Cop (1990) - comedy
>
> These are all well known roles/films where Schwarzenegger was a star. He was a well known actor showing both action and comedic skills. I would not agree his Conan fame had died out by T2. He was already a large box office draw.
>
> I don’t think T2 played any special role in his career. I think he could have gone on to do every one of the roles he had post T2 even if T2 had never been made.
Really? I’m on my iPod touch right now and can’t do much research but I’d be willing to bet that no movie he has been in has done even half the box office $$ that T2 did. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that every movie he’s made combined, minus Predator, Conan and maybe T3, doesn’t equal the total $$ made worldwide by T2. Other than Predator and Conan he hasn’t had a bonafide smash hit that I can think of. He’s had successful movies like Commando and Total Recall but those aren’t even close to the level of a T2. I don’t see how you can say there’s no substantial change to his legacy without T2.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2009, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/4 "2009-08-29T12:29:46Z")
How _much_ do you wanna bet?
[Stats](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/people/chart/?view=Actor&id=arnoldschwarzenegger.htm). Althought _T2_ is his single most successful film, _T3_ and _True Lies_ each earned about 70% of _T2_.
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### Author:  [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/5 "2009-08-29T13:42:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> How _much_ do you wanna bet?
>
> [Stats](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/people/chart/?view=Actor&id=arnoldschwarzenegger.htm). Althought _T2_ is his single most successful film, _T3_ and _True Lies_ each earned about 70% of _T2_.
That is only domestic gross.
Forgot about True Lies though.
I attribute T3’s success directly to interest generated by T2 which is why I mentioned it in my earlier post. Batman and Robin wasn’t really an Arnie vehicle so I wouldn’t count it but it’s legit to.
Predator has only done $60M lifetime gross? Really? That’s hard to believe as I think it’s his 2nd most popular movie after T2.
Anyway, even using your link T2 is almost DOUBLE his next highest grossing film domestically and that was in 1990’s dollars.
I just don’t see how anyone could think his legacy isn’t greatly impacted without T2. Stallone IS Arnold without T2. Still a strong legacy, but nothing like Arnold.
EDIT: Yeah, go on that site and look at each movie individually. T2 did over a half BILLION dollars world wide in 90’s $$. Next closest is barely half that.
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/6 "2009-08-29T21:28:11Z")
Regardless of box office sales, you made statements that I dispute.
> [@](#):
>
> His Conan fame was never massive and had died out before T2.
Maybe his _Conan_ fame had died out, but he was a very famous actor in lots of movies. He certainly wasn’t hurting for work.
> [@](#):
>
> but he permanently became the biggest action star of all time after T2 and I don’t think anyone will ever surpass him and may at best match him in total domination of the genre.
I don’t know what this means. Apparently you are measuring by gross dollars earned by the film. Okay, but that doesn’t mean anything to me. I measure by household name recognition. And Arnie’s was huge before T2. So I can’t see that he wouldn’t have gone on to other big movies even if he didn’t do T2.
> [@](#):
>
> I think his launch into the stratosphere of stardom after T2 lead directly to his ability to attain governorship of California and has cemented him as one of the biggest stars in Hollywood history.
What is “stratosphere of stardom” to you? I have already said he was well known before T2 (fucking Twins was before T2), so I just don’t see that T2 did anything that his career didn’t already have. Sure it was a great movie and a great followup to Terminator, but to me, it doesn’t seem to be a big deal when it comes to Arnie’s popularity or name recognition. He already had those.
> [@](#):
>
> I think if T2 never happened he would have washed up like Sly, though Sly has had some decent success in the last couple of years.
I don’t even know what to make of that. I think he could easily have done _True Lies_, and the rest of his career would have been untouched. Or maybe he wouldn’t have made _The Sixth Day_, and we’d have a much better movie in its place. (Isn’t that the one that quickly stopped mentioning he was even in it by name, even though is face was all over it?)
My answer remains the same. T2 was a good movie and a big money maker, but Arnie’s legacy remains largely intact without it.
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### Author:  [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/7 "2009-08-29T22:40:18Z")
Here’s a thought, would the studio have given Cameron the thumbs up if Schwarzenegger had not agreed to star in it? It was the most expensive movie ever made at the time, and I’m not sure the studio would have risked it without a bankable lead star i.e. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/8 "2009-08-30T01:21:30Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#):
>
> Forgot about True Lies though.
_True Lies_ is the greatest action movie ever. That Tia Carrere / Jamie Lee Curtis catfight gives me a boner every time.
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### Author:  [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/9 "2009-08-30T03:26:18Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#):
>
> Here’s a thought, would the studio have given Cameron the thumbs up if Schwarzenegger had not agreed to star in it? It was the most expensive movie ever made at the time, and I’m not sure the studio would have risked it without a bankable lead star i.e. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Probably if Cameron got another beefy action star.
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### Author:  [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-arnold-schwartzeneggers-legacy-change-with-no-t2/508115/10 "2009-08-30T19:36:50Z")
Yes, T2 is his biggest hit by a lot and that certainly counts for something. Take it away and it does diminish his overall career somewhat, but you could apply that to almost any actor. Take away their biggest hit and their career won’t be quite the same.
But I agree with **Irishman**. Schwarzenegger was already a huge star/household name before T2.
Plus, if you look at his career after T2, well, it didn’t really take him to another level of quality or box office success, and actually the case can be easily made that his movies after T2 are not nearly as good (with the exception of True Lies) as his movies before T2.
After T2:
_The Last Action Hero
True Lies
Junior
Eraser
Jingle All the Way
Batman and Robin
End of Days
The 6th Day
Collateral Damage
T3_
I’m sure each of those movies has its fans, but True Lies is, IMO, the only one that’s really any good. (though I do enjoy some of the action sequences in T3)