# How much does \[electronic\] data weigh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 21, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418 "2010-11-21T06:51:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/1 "2010-11-21T06:51:38Z")
Say I have a SSD or flash drive of some sort and that device is fully loaded with information (whatever the size might be), is it possible that the electrons, or whatever, add up to a measurable weight? If so, how large must the drive be? Not sure if that’s even the right way to be thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/2 "2010-11-21T07:02:40Z")
Does a light switch weigh more when it’s off or on? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/3 "2010-11-21T07:13:43Z")
> [@GameHat](#): > > Does a light switch weigh more when it’s off or on? Off because it still has the photons in it. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/4 "2010-11-21T07:46:32Z")
> [@GameHat](#): > > Does a light switch weigh more when it’s off or on? Off for most of them, because it’s down, and closer to the gravitational center of the earth. And to the OP – it will depend on the medium, but generally the same amount of “stuff” is present for either a “1” bit or a “0” bit, just aligned differently. Active RAM could be an exception, depending on the type. But even if it were heavier, a “full” drive may doesn’t have any more “1” bits on it than an “empty” drive. Data (and uninitialized “empty” space) can contain either or both, independent of the size of the data. For example, an empty disk might have, say, 50% 1 bits and 50% zero bits, in no particular order. A “full” disk may have a single file of all zero bits on it. So again, it’s “same data, organized differently.” ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/5 "2010-11-21T09:02:32Z")
My fellow physics teacher told the students to ask me that question. I figured he had some point to make about information, order, entropy and energy and tried to wrap my head around it. Turned out he just wanted to mess with my mind. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/6 "2010-11-21T10:28:05Z")
Which is heavier, a bucket full of LEGO bricks, or a bucket half full of LEGO bricks and half full of the model you made with the rest of the LEGO bricks? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/7 "2010-11-21T11:05:30Z")
> [@Chairman\_Pow](#): > > How much does [electronic] data weigh? The short answer is: **Nothing.** > [@Chairman\_Pow](#): > > Say I have a SSD or flash drive of some sort and that device is fully loaded with information (whatever the size might be), is it possible that the electrons, or whatever, add up to a measurable weight? Electrons do weigh something, but there are no more of them in a drive full of data than in a drive wiped clean. They are just differently arranged. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/8 "2010-11-21T11:07:25Z")
To rephrase the question slightly… What, if any, is the **material** difference between a “0” bit and a “1” bit on a memory device? (perhaps a different answer for different technologies?) If there is a difference, could there in theory be a mass/weight/potential energy difference between a device written to all “0”-s and a device written to all “1”-? ETA: Basically, I’m asking if **njtt** ’s second assertion above is, in fact, **absolutely and mathematically** correct for all configurations of a given memory device. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/9 "2010-11-21T11:29:49Z")
> [@Chairman\_Pow](#): > > Say I have a SSD or flash drive of some sort and that device is fully loaded with information (whatever the size might be), is it possible that the electrons, or whatever, add up to a measurable weight? If so, how large must the drive be? > > Not sure if that’s even the right way to be thinking about it. This question has been asked in the past. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/10 "2010-11-21T11:56:47Z")
One might make the case that in Flash memory, the “1” is in a higher energy state than the “0”. So technically, the “1” weighs somewhat more, simply because it has more potential energy. It still has the same number of electrons though. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/11 "2010-11-21T13:30:53Z")
As I understand it, information actually does have mass, on the order of something like 10^-65 kg per bit. In fact information is what matter and energy are made of. However, I don’t know if the information content of the drive changes when you put files on it. In this context information is probably best looked at as the agency that resolves uncertainty. The meaning assigned to 1 or 0 in each location is part of the total information content but this meaning is not really inside the drive. These issues are confusing. It might be that the drive is heavier if you set all the bits randomly than if they all have the same value. I read someplace recently about a nifty demonstration that entropy in information and entropy in thermodynamics are the same thing. I think it involved a recent experiment that in a sense invoked Maxwell’s demon to physically lift a tiny bead against the force of gravity, using random thermal energy plus a measurement system that figured out when to let the bead move and when to prevent its motion by monitoring individual particle motions in the system. They did not expend any energy per se to raise the bead, and remarked that it was a nice demonstration of creating energy out of information. ---
**Author:** ![Al\_Bundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@Al\_Bundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al_Bundy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/12 "2010-11-21T21:24:11Z")
A pile of electrons would not weigh much, but something finite and measurable. With storage, you are not adding electrons, just rearranging those that are present. Just to be sure I stood on my digital scale while holding my flash drive and did so after reformatting it. My weight was the same!!! ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/13 "2010-11-21T21:39:13Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > As I understand it, information actually does have mass, on the order of something like 10^-65 kg per bit. I’ve heard something like this before, but I don’t understand it, on conservation-of-energy grounds. If I put a HD of mass X with information Y into a hermetically sealed container, and have the HD set to self-destruct, then presumably information Y would be destroyed. And yet by conservation of energy, the closed system must remain the same mass. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/14 "2010-11-21T22:03:25Z")
Don’t stop with a flash drive–think big. [How much does the Internet weigh](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=471606)? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/15 "2010-11-21T22:04:36Z")
> [@Al\_Bundy](#): > > Just to be sure I stood on my digital scale while holding my flash drive and did so after reformatting it. My weight was the same!!! What if you were juggling three of them? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/16 "2010-11-21T22:42:34Z")
> [@](#): > > If I put a HD of mass X with information Y into a hermetically sealed container, and have the HD set to self-destruct, then presumably information Y would be destroyed. All models which assign an energy to information (and in fact several models which don’t) define information in such a way that it can’t actually be destroyed, just made harder to recover. How exactly black holes fit in with this concept of conservation of information is as yet an open question. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/17 "2010-11-21T22:46:40Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > What if you were juggling three of them? On a treadmill. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/18 "2010-11-21T22:50:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > All models which assign an energy to information (and in fact several models which don’t) define information in such a way that it can’t actually be destroyed, just made harder to recover. How exactly black holes fit in with this concept of conservation of information is as yet an open question. Conservation of energy would also imply that information cannot be created (within a closed system). This contradicts my assumption that humans have ever created information. Weird, seems discordant with any human-useful definition of information… ETA: I guess you just say “the information was always there. The humans just collected it and expressed it in a symbolic format.” But that renders the word sort of trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/19 "2010-11-21T23:01:18Z")
Let’s look at a theoretical storage device. In this device, a 1 is when an electron is on the left side of a tiny cel, a 0 is when it is on the right. Now tell me that this device is heavier if it has more 1s than 0s or vice-versa. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418/20 "2010-11-21T23:01:25Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > One might make the case that in Flash memory, the “1” is in a higher energy state than the “0”. So technically, the “1” weighs somewhat more, simply because it has more potential energy. It still has the same number of electrons though. I do not know much about how flash memory works, but I question whether it is in fact the case that a **1** (I take it you actually mean the electrons representing a **1** ) is in a higher energy state than a **0**. I am fairly sure that this is not the case in ordinary dynamic RAM. It is not the state of the electrons that matters but, literally, where they are in the circuit: which gate is being clamped open. If flash memory relied on keeping some electrons in a higher than ground energy state, surely the information would be subject to quite rapid decay, which is just the opposite of what is wanted from a flash drive. As for information having mass, well, I can’t claim to understand that, but even if it does, is it actually the case that drive containing, say, a lot of JPEGS actually contains objectively more information than one where every bit is set to 0? (The former contains more _useful_ information, from a human perspective, but that is not the same thing as objectively more.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-electronic-data-weigh/561418.md?page=2)