# How much does it cost to be a copyright troll?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 2, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926 "2017-06-02T14:01:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926/1 "2017-06-02T14:01:01Z")
One of my YouTube fishing videos has an original music loop that I licensed from one of the legit music houses you can easily find on the net. It’s a three minute loop that repeats for 30 minutes.
Two days after I uploaded, I was hit with three copyright claims, two of which were from the same claimant for two different tracks!
I immediately disputed the claims and within a couple of days the claims were removed.
But I’m wondering… do these guys have software that targets every new video uploaded to YouTube?
There’s no legal penalty that I can see and YouTube makes a point of letting you know they are not part of the process except for delivering the message, so it seems to me the only downside for those whose moral compass allows such things is the monetary cost of setting it all up.
Is this something exotic, or can any script kiddie do it from the basement? How much does it cost to be a copyright troll?
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### Author:  [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926/2 "2017-06-03T00:05:34Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#):
>
> One of my YouTube fishing videos has an original music loop that I licensed from one of the legit music houses
Is it a legit purchase ? Either way I guess the copyright lawyers were trying to get you to pay (first or second or third time…)
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926/3 "2017-06-03T01:16:23Z")
He says he licensed it, which presumably means he did whatever was necessary to get a legit license (probably paid for it, but it could be Creative Commons or something).
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926/4 "2017-06-03T22:35:46Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#):
>
> But I’m wondering… do these guys have software that targets every new video uploaded to YouTube?
I believe the big groups of music copyright-holders (ASCAP & BMI) do have systems that scan online trying to locate usage of copyrighted music. Then they have to match those against the licensed usages, to see if it’s a legitimate, licensed use or a pirate usage. (I can see where that would tend to have a fair amount of errors.)
I’m not sure if ASCAP/BMI go after questionable users directly, or if they just notify the composer/artist who owns the copyright, and they then take action. You didn’t say who it was that sent you these letters, or who they said they were acting for.
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### Author:  [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926/5 "2017-06-05T14:43:17Z")
There are no letters. These guys never contact me directly. What they do is file a claim with YouTube saying that my video has their music on it and therefore they deserve any money the video makes via YouTube monetization.
YouTube is the one who notifies me that this claim has been made and they are going to honor it unless I dispute it. The “dispute” is me replying back via a form with a note that the claims are false because my video does not, in fact, contain the music in question. This form is sent back to the claimants, not YouTube, and they withdrew their claims.
It’s obvious to me that this deal is automated and is really just about money. I don’t even monetize my videos with YouTube, so there was, in fact nothing to me gained from me.
But that doesn’t change the fact that I don’t appreciate being called a thief, and so I disputed these false claims.
The more I look into it, the more I think YouTube’s “Content ID” system is behind this whole thing and it’s really more about how they deal with copyright than anything else.
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926/6 "2017-06-05T21:09:25Z")
So look into charging them with “False Claim of Copyright” – there’s a $1000 fine for that. According to Google, 40% of the copyright take-down claims they get are false.
[US Code 17 Section 105:](https://www.copyright.gov/history/studies/study10.pdf)
> [@](#):
>
> Any person who, with fraudulent intent, shall insert or impress any notice of copyright required by this title, or words of the same purport, in or upon any uncopyrighted article, or with fraudulent intent shall remove or alter the copyright notice upon any article duly copyrighted shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $1,000. Any person who shall knowingly issue or sell any article bearing a notice of United States copyright which has not been copyrighted in this country, or who shall knowingly import any article bearing such notice or words of the same purport, which has not been copyrighted in this country, shall be liable to a fine of $100.
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### Author:  [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926/7 "2017-06-05T21:14:53Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#):
>
> But I’m wondering… do these guys have software that targets every new video uploaded to YouTube?
Probably.
> [@](#):
>
> Is this something exotic, or can any script kiddie do it from the basement? How much does it cost to be a copyright troll?
I don’t know that any script kiddie could do it, but any software developer worth hiring could make something that took a database of music, generated some audio fingerprints from it, then compared them against portions of a video file for matches.
Of course, if you’re really trolling, there’s no need to bother to check against an audio fingerprint. Just automate the reporting mechanism. Probably any script kiddie could do that part, although presumably Youtube does filter out and disable attempts to file for _every_ video.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2017, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926/8 "2017-06-08T04:12:23Z")
You sure YouTube has nothing to do with it? YouTube has a ContentID system, and it would seem silly to invent your own. Sure, YouTube doesn’t set it up or anything, but it’s on their platform. YouTube isn’t liable, since they aren’t doing it, and the dispute is the first time any human sees it–if that isn’t also automated.
I mean, I guess that someone who was a real troll might roll their own, but why would YouTube trust them? It seems that, if you’re rolling your own and messing up all the time, and you’re not some big media company, it would be better for YouTube to ban the account.
What I do know for sure is that you cannot get them for false copyright claims. They aren’t serving a DMCA notice. They are informing YouTube, and YouTube can respond based on the license you agreed to when you signed up and uploaded the video. It doesn’t get into the legal territory until the “appeal” step–where you also take on legal risk if you are in fact infringing.
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### Author:  [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-it-cost-to-be-a-copyright-troll/787926/9 "2017-06-08T16:46:13Z")
I don’t know what algorithm they use, but I got hit a couple years ago by copyright infringement notices for a recording of my high school choir singing [“O Magnum Mysterium”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjTbXgIdOtU).
e
> [@Copyright Troll](#):
>
> \> “Your video may include a song owned by a third party. For example,
> \> this might be a song playing in the background or someone performing a
> \> song.
> \>
> \> To hear the matched song please play the video on the right. The video
> \> will play from the point where the matched content was identified.
> \>
> \> Your video is available and playable.
> \>
> \> Here are the details:
> \>
> \> “O Magnum Mysterium- Victoria”, musical composition administered by:
> \> 0:15 Kobalt Music Publishing Your dispute awaiting response by
> \> 01/16/14 “O magnum mysterium”, musical composition administered by:
> \> 1:44 AdShare MG for a Third Party Your dispute awaiting response by
> \> 01/17/14”
> [@AHunter3](#):
>
> Dear Intellectual Property Shark-wannabees: Tomas Luis de Victoria wrote this in the 1500s. It isn’t protected by copyright. The performance is my high school choir circa 1974-75, it’s not a commercial recording, and none of you folks own any copyright on that either.
Being charitable, I assumed they have some recording of a professional choir singing the thing and their software doesn’t differentiate particularly well.