# How Much Does Personal Morality Play A Role In Politics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798 "2011-12-11T03:59:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/21 "2011-12-13T05:53:41Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > It does require integrity and loyalty to the country This is the question I raised earlier: does it make sense to lump all of these together and call them “integrity and loyalty?” If a person does cheat on his wife, is it more reasonable to think that he would cheat on a business partner or country (whatever that means)? Does it make sense to assume that if he doesn’t cheat on one, he won’t cheat on another? This assumption is going unexamined. > [@](#): > > Well I’d never vote for anyone who has had an abortion or incited an abortion “fundie” or not. I was not aware you could incite an abortion. It’s not a riot. Anyway this kind of attitude just encourages lying about it (already common among politicians). > [@](#): > > And I’m amused your characterize fundies as that as one of the heroes of the Christian Right in this country is a woman-Michelle Bachmann and so is Sarah Palin. I am sure you are aware that this logic doesn’t hold water. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/22 "2011-12-13T05:59:55Z")
Can we demonstrate a correlation between cheating on your spouse and infidelity in other areas? Anyone have some statistics to work with? Because here’s a hint: cheating on your spouse doesn’t just have to do with infidelity. There are a whole mess of things that could affect it. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/23 "2011-12-13T07:55:28Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Keep up with the jokes please. I’m sorry that the very idea of being a decent human being is a joke to you. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/24 "2011-12-13T08:02:13Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > JFK didn’t do anything for civil rights, unlike Bush who incidentally renewed the Voting Rights Act. We’re rooting for you, **Qin**. This Board needs an intelligent right-winger and you may be our best hope. But this comment is astounding. To begin with, it is more-or-less inconceivable that Bush would have vetoed that Voting Rights Act even if he wanted to. Recall that the renewal passed the House by a vote of 390-33. To pretend that this gives Bush civil rights credentials is to admit that you have … nothing. And, however much you hate the sinful, Communistic JFK (or however you characterize him when you choose to hate him) to pretend he had no role in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is to admit to gross ignorance. That Act was passed, with bipartisan support, only because a mourning nation sought expiation for the killing of JFK. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/25 "2011-12-13T14:09:36Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What do you mean here exactly? Do you believe Governor Perry trampled on the rights of the citizens of Texas when he made them pay for the education of illegals? No, he wants to trample on citizens rights by treating gays as second class or even persecuting them, and by taking away the rights of those whose religion doesn’t align with his sectarian faith. > [@](#): > > Consies? Fischer? Schroder would indicate Germany though… Consies = short for Conservatives. Fischer = Joschka Fischer, Foreign Minister of Germany during the Red-Green coalition Schröder = chancellor of Germany during the Red-Green coalition. > [@](#): > > JFK didn’t do anything for civil rights, unlike Bush who incidentally renewed the Voting Rights Act. Please read a better history book then. > [@](#): > > It does require integrity and loyalty to the country, In what weird way does "treating your wife well " require loyalty to the country? And being a good politican doesn’t require loyalty to the country, but loyalty to the interests of the citizens. A lot of American politicans are gung-ho patriotic, while acting against the interests of a large part of the population. > [@](#): > > Well I’d never vote for anyone who has had an abortion or incited an abortion “fundie” or not. Given that very very few politicans in the US are women, that’s not very hard. And how do you know that a man “incited” an abortion? > [@](#): > > And I’m amused your characterize fundies as that as one of the heroes of the Christian Right in this country is a woman-Michelle Bachmann and so is Sarah Palin. Oh here we go again. Do you realize the difference between one individual case, and a general group? That’s why I talked about “rates” - applying to a group. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/26 "2011-12-13T14:25:00Z")
Here is a question for the believers in morals. > [@](#): > > It is time to elect a new world leader, and your vote counts. Here are the facts about the three leading candidates: > > - Candidate A: Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with astrologists. He’s had two mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day. > > - Candidate B: He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium in college and drinks a quart of whisky every evening. > > - Candidate C: He is a decorated war hero. He’s a vegetarian, doesn’t smoke, drinks an occasional beer and hasn’t had any extramarital affairs. > > Which of these candidates would be your choice? The solution is Candidate A is Franklin D. Roosevelt Candidate B is Winston Churchill Candidate C is Adolph Hitler (And yes, I know that the question is slightly slanted, since [spoiler]It has some good points, namely that by selectively choosing which facts to report, you can make just about anyone look good or bad. It also (perhaps unintentionally) provides an example demonstrating that facts offered out of context can be more misleading than no facts at all: Hitler’s diet was primarily vegetarian throughout the latter part of his life; however, he didn’t adopt a vegetarian diet for moral reasons, but because he suffered from gastric problems. Still, some of the semantic trickery used here makes this a rather poor example. Hitler had affairs with several women (some of whom died under mysterious circumstances), but they weren’t technically “extramarital” affairs because he wasn’t married. Playing games with language might also be part of the lesson here, but we suspect that whoever crafted this piece included some misinformation by mistake, not by design. [/spoiler] ([Source](http://www.snopes.com/glurge/twoquestions.asp)) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/27 "2011-12-13T16:01:55Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > Yet, some candidates just can’t, or won’t, behave with the most basic of personal morality that 90% of the population expects on a day-to-day basis. It doesn’t sound like those candidates are very serious about their job, it sounds like they just care about getting the nookie. Sexual fidelity constitutes the “most basic of personal morality that 90% percent of the population expects on a day-to-day basis”? Really? When sexual infidelity is perhaps the most common personal moral trespass in the human experience? That really only goes to show one thing, that people are hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/28 "2011-12-13T18:23:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Sexual fidelity constitutes the “most basic of personal morality that 90% percent of the population expects on a day-to-day basis”? Really? When sexual infidelity is perhaps the most common personal moral trespass in the human experience? That really only goes to show one thing, that people are hypocrites. Yes, people are hypocrites, sexual infidelity is a common failing and yet, most of us (dare I say 90% ?) think that people should be faithful to their spouses once they have gone to the trouble of holding a big ceremony where they promise to be faithful. I am gobsmacked that some people believe cheating on one’s spouse says absolutely nothing about a person. You can twist and turn all you want about whether a man who cheats on his wife will cheat on anyone else. Who cares? The question is what that man will do when his own self interest conflicts with the promises he has made and, I believe, a serial cheater has made that choice perfectly clear. Boo Hoo Hoo for the poor presidential candidate who is just now finding out that people can be hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/29 "2011-12-13T18:41:23Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I am gobsmacked that some people believe cheating on one’s spouse says absolutely nothing about a person. Nobody’s said that in this thread. What a couple of people have said is that one kind of “cheating” may not say much of anything about another. That’s what the thread is about. (We all know waht it means to cheat on your spouse; what some of these other types of cheating are is not being specified.) Many people have managed to be sleazy in a bunch of these areas at once. Then again I’ve never heard Bill Gates accused of cheating on his wife, but lots of people have made serious accusations about dishonest or illegal business dealings on his part. Does that mean his wife should be concerned? I’ve heard the saying “A man who cheats on his wife will cheat on his country” attributed to Thomas Jefferson, although I suspect he never said that. And for that matter it seems like there have been people who “cheated on the country” without committing marital infidelity. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/30 "2011-12-13T18:44:06Z")
The obvious solution would be for future politicans in the US just to stay unmarried - because if you are single, it’s not cheating. (And any serious politican doesn’t have time for a real relationship anyway - rent a woman would be a much better idea). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/31 "2011-12-13T19:27:28Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > most of us (dare I say 90% ?) think that people should be faithful to their spouses once they have gone to the trouble of holding a big ceremony where they promise to be faithful. So what? There’s a difference in what people “think” other people should do in their personal lives and then there’s choosing political leaders. It takes a special kind of short-sightedness, self-deception, and lack of sense to conflate the two. When I look at what kind of political leaders have been known to have personal failings of various kinds, I see little reason to take them into account when making political decisions. > [@](#): > > The question is what that man will do when his own self interest conflicts with the promises he has made and, I believe, a serial cheater has made that choice perfectly clear. You can take this kind of melodramatic stance or you can look at the actual evidence. I see no reason to believe that sexual infidelity, or other kinds of minor personal failings say anything reliable about a person’s fitness for office. Conversely, I also see no reason to believe that sexual fidelity and other kinds of minor personal virtues say anything reliable about a person’s fitness for office. > [@](#): > > Boo Hoo Hoo for the poor presidential candidate who is just now finding out that people can be hypocrites. It’s not the presidential candidates I have sympathy for in this scenario. It’s the public that I worry about, making decisions based on irrelevant, indeed misleading, trivia about candidates’ personal lives. By subjecting candidates to this kind of idiotic scrutiny, we are depriving ourselves of the probability of the best leadership. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798/32 "2011-12-13T19:47:38Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > The obvious solution would be for future politicans in the US just to stay unmarried - because if you are single, it’s not cheating. (And any serious politican doesn’t have time for a real relationship anyway - rent a woman would be a much better idea). I kind of doubt an unmarried politician could get anywhere in a presidential run, in this day and age. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-personal-morality-play-a-role-in-politics/605798.md?page=1)