# How much does porn influence the perception of women's bodies? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 28, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162 "2013-06-28T22:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/61 "2013-06-30T19:09:54Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > When’s the last time you’ve seen a VS catalog? Only 10% of the catalog is lingerie if that. The rest is just regular clothes. Then I guess it has been a while. For the record, I was only talking about how Victoria’s Secret sells lingerie. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/62 "2013-06-30T19:26:27Z")
Men like what men like, and aren’t usually influenced on what they’re supposed to like by porn or anything else . Though the Cat Walk fashion models are supposed to be the “Thing” that many women seek to emulate, IME most men, including me find them not very desirable, and more then a little bit sexless. It seems to me that men are driven by their biology, women are more driven by other womens opinions. I once said to my ex "Why don’t all women wear mini skirts, cos we love them ", and she said "We dress to impress other women , not you lot ". ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/63 "2013-06-30T20:14:06Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Men like what men like, and aren’t usually influenced on what they’re supposed to like by porn or anything else . If mens’ porn preferences aren’t influenced by anything except “biology”, then how do you explain the fact that people from different countries and cultures exhibit [distinct differences in their typical porn preferences?](http://www.pornmd.com/sex-search) Here are the top ten roman alphabet search terms in four different countries. Michigan: 1. milf 2. teen 3. creampie 4. college 5. amateur 6. pov 7. compilation 8. lesbian 9. hentai 10. anal Romania: 1. mom and son 2. romania 3. romanian 4. slave 5. mom and son (the term so nice they list it twice!) 6. peekshows 7. maria milano 8. orgasm 9. lisa ann 10. ebony creampie Syria: 1. aunt 2. arab teen 3. creamy squirt 4. doctor anal 5. asian (gay) 6. suppository (gay) 7. versatile (gay) 8. aletta ocean 9. dirty scat 10. feet slave Japan (my personal favorite): 1. japanese 2. japan (gay) 3. japanese (gay) 4. japan 5. japanese wife 6. asian (gay) 7. hentai 8. japanese mature 9. glossmen (gay) 10. jap (gay) What’s is the biological cause behind the Syrian affinity for poop-covered foot slaves, I wonder? How come Romanians are so much fonder of mother-son incest than pretty much any other country on the planet? Do you suppose there’s a genetic basis for the fact that most Japanese basically only like watching other Japanese people? Think we’ll ever isolate the gene complexes responsible for Turkey’s nearly unique craving for rape porn? Why, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear it’s almost as if people’s porn preferences are highly influenced by the nature of people’s prior sexual experiences and the differential frequency of the appearance of specific erotic tropes in their cultural narrative! But of course, that would be silly. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/64 "2013-06-30T22:44:34Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > So while I’m perfectly aware that there’s porn out there with women shaped like me, I haven’t seen it. When someone says “porn star”, I’m thinking Traci Lords, not overweight middle aged women with uneven breasts and stretch marks and moles and scars. Google “tube porn” and you will be presented with a list of YouTube-style sites absolutely loaded with porn clips that have been categorized into every imaginable niche. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/65 "2013-06-30T23:56:24Z")
> [@colander](#): > > If mens’ porn preferences aren’t influenced by anything except “biology”, then how do you explain the fact that people from different countries and cultures exhibit [distinct differences in their typical porn preferences?](http://www.pornmd.com/sex-search) Here are the top ten roman alphabet search terms in four different countries. > Michigan: > > 1. milf > 2. teen > 3. creampie > 4. college > 5. amateur > 6. pov > 7. compilation > 8. lesbian > 9. hentai > 10. anal > > Romania: > > 1. mom and son > 2. romania > 3. romanian > 4. slave > 5. mom and son (the term so nice they list it twice!) > 6. peekshows > 7. maria milano > 8. orgasm > 9. lisa ann > 10. ebony creampie > > Syria: > > 1. aunt > 2. arab teen > 3. creamy squirt > 4. doctor anal > 5. asian (gay) > 6. suppository (gay) > 7. versatile (gay) > 8. aletta ocean > 9. dirty scat > 10. feet slave > > Japan (my personal favorite): > > 1. japanese > 2. japan (gay) > 3. japanese (gay) > 4. japan > 5. japanese wife > 6. asian (gay) > 7. hentai > 8. japanese mature > 9. glossmen (gay) > 10. jap (gay) > > What’s is the biological cause behind the Syrian affinity for poop-covered foot slaves, I wonder? How come Romanians are so much fonder of mother-son incest than pretty much any other country on the planet? Do you suppose there’s a genetic basis for the fact that most Japanese basically only like watching other Japanese people? Think we’ll ever isolate the gene complexes responsible for Turkey’s nearly unique craving for rape porn? > > Why, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear it’s almost as if people’s porn preferences are highly influenced by the nature of people’s prior sexual experiences and the differential frequency of the appearance of specific erotic tropes in their cultural narrative! > > But of course, that would be silly. The O.P.s premise was that men watch porn, see a certain type of female body, feel that because it is porn then they themselves should desire that body type (I assume as some sort of peer pressure, or desire to conform) from now on, and ordinary women feel themselves pressured to emulate this body type because it has become those porn watching mens ideal . And I said that men are not influenced that way. If my friends all fancy red headed women with freckles, it doesn’t make me feel pressured to like same, or even pretend to like same. And the other men in my peer group wouldn’t ridicule me for it, or even find it strange. That was the o.p. and that was my answer to it. The whole point of the debate is that men don’t get peer pressured by porn into pretending that something turns them on if it doesn’t. They get turned on by what they get turned on by. If they get turned on by obese, dwarves with tattoos THEN they’ll look up porn that shows such, and of course, will look for sexual partners like that IRL. If someone who didn’t like that sort of woman, but was made to watch a porn film, where she practiced his every dream, sexual fantasy, the odds are he wouldn’t get aroused by it in any way, and might even feel disgusted by it. I think that in your assiduous research into porn, you’re confusing cause with effect. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/66 "2013-07-01T00:54:54Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > If my friends all fancy red headed women with freckles, it doesn’t make me feel pressured to like same, or even pretend to like same. > And the other men in my peer group wouldn’t ridicule me for it, or even find it strange. And if nearly all the mainstream, easily accessible porn depicted red headed freckled women, wouldn’t you find yourself suffering a predilection of same? And if you lived in a say…Middle Eastern clime, or a Far Eastern locale, you’d suffer a distinct deficit of red headed freckledy women. Right? ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/67 "2013-07-01T01:10:13Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > I think that in your assiduous research into porn, you’re confusing cause with effect. So… you are saying that what happened is actually that all the people who like gay suppository porn moved to Syria because they heard that’s the best spot for it or what exactly are you trying to articulate here? Again, what is your explanation for such diverse porn tastes in diverse locales? Maybe titty wizards did it? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/68 "2013-07-01T02:43:47Z")
> [@colander](#): > > If mens’ porn preferences aren’t influenced by anything except “biology”, then how do you explain the fact that people from different countries and cultures exhibit [distinct differences in their typical porn preferences?](http://www.pornmd.com/sex-search) Here are the top ten roman alphabet search terms in four different countries. > > … > > Why, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear it’s almost as if people’s porn preferences are highly influenced by the nature of people’s prior sexual experiences and the differential frequency of the appearance of specific erotic tropes in their cultural narrative! > > But of course, that would be silly. I would agree with you of course that culture influences sexuality, but we should be clear that there is a difference between what kind of physical forms people find attractive, and what kind of _scenarios_ people find taboo and/or possible. I would expect the latter to vary much more than the former. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/69 "2013-07-01T02:50:51Z")
> [@colander](#): > > I have to think that this probably has something to do with the fact that you pretty much can’t find non-asian straight porn featuring sub-7" dongs without straight up doing a search for “small penis”. I stumbled across (I’ve learned to stop saying “came across” in these threads) a clip from a site run by an embarrassingly-endowed man ([mytinydick.com](http://mytinydick.com), or something like that). The clip showed a very nice-looking young black woman riding him cowgirl-style and providing a nonstop stream of insults regarding the size of his junk. “Man, I’m not feeling anything here. This isn’t fun for me at all…” I found it amusing, but wasn’t inclined to look for more. > [@msmith537](#): > > And most people don’t. That’s the beauty of the internet. If you are self conscious about something, you can always connect to enough jerks who would be happy to validate your fears that yes, you are being judged on it. The converse is true as well - women who don’t fit the “standard” can still find men who think they’re beautiful. > [@Lakai](#): > > Then why do standards of beauty change from decade to decade? Do you think men change what they find attractive without any influence from the media? If most men are like me, what influences them is less media and more the women they see around them, and have experiences with, in real life. My love for redheads has nothing to do with the media and everything to do with the fact that I lost my virginity to a redhead. > [@Lust4Life](#): > > Men like what men like, and aren’t usually influenced on what they’re supposed to like by porn or anything else Seconded. When I watch porn, I can afford to be picky and search out actresses/models who have exactly the aesthetic I like the best. IRL, if a woman attracts me while fully clothed, I’m not going to be picky should I happen to find her naked with me. One of my favorite quotes came from an actress from the 1930s or 1940s who was renowned for her great legs. I can’t recall the exact wording, but what it boiled down to was, “It’s not about great legs. What really interests a man is a woman who is interested in _him_.” > [@colander](#): > > So… you are saying that what happened is actually that all the people who like gay suppository porn moved to Syria because they heard that’s the best spot for it or what exactly are you trying to articulate here? Again, what is your explanation for such diverse porn tastes in diverse locales?? I thought it was fairly well established that what men like in porn is whatever happens to be “taboo”, or at least uncommon, in their society. Hence, the overabundance of blowjobs and non-missionary sex positions in most porn: things the average guy isn’t/wasn’t getting. And now that, apparently, more “real life” women are willing to perform oral, the fellatio in porn has stepped it up a notch to the rough “gagging” stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/70 "2013-07-01T02:58:10Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Yet Maggie Gyllenhall finds work. Normal-looking women aren’t shut out. She’s hardly “normal”. Damn good looking IMO. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/71 "2013-07-01T03:28:50Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I thought it was fairly well established that what men like in porn is whatever happens to be “taboo”, or at least uncommon, in their society. Hence, the overabundance of blowjobs and non-missionary sex positions in most porn: things the average guy isn’t/wasn’t getting. And now that, apparently, more “real life” women are willing to perform oral, the fellatio in porn has stepped it up a notch to the rough “gagging” stuff. I’m pretty sure “dirty scat” is as taboo in Michigan as it is in Syria, and I’m also pretty sure that Japanese people aren’t very taboo at all in Japan. So that doesn’t explain a whole lot. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/72 "2013-07-01T04:22:51Z")
> [@colander](#): > > I’m pretty sure “dirty scat” is as taboo in Michigan as it is in Syria I’m not sure what that is, but even if it is taboo in two places, that doesn’t mean it is equally taboo. In any case, it’s trivial to find examples of things that are taboo in one place but not another. > [@](#): > > and I’m also pretty sure that Japanese people aren’t very taboo at all in Japan. So that doesn’t explain a whole lot. I agree; whether something is taboo is not, in itself, sufficient explanation. But it does seem to be a significant factor. Another critical factor is how feasible a given person finds the scenario – whether they can imagine the scenario happening to them. Japan is still an ethnically very homogeneous country. Maybe porn with Western actors doesn’t appeal because most people can’t imagine themselves in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/73 "2013-07-01T05:24:32Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Japan is still an ethnically very homogeneous country. Maybe porn with Western actors doesn’t appeal because most people can’t imagine themselves in that situation. Aside from being homogenous, Japan is also still very insular. As much as I love the beauty of Japanese women, I can’t stand watching Japanese porn. It’s very clearly aimed at Japanese men. Japan has been experiencing a population _decrease_ for some years now, largely because people are so busy working that they don’t have time to go out and meet people of the opposite sex. One of my complaints about Japanese porn is that it takes forever for the scenes to get to the penis-in-vagina stage, if it even gets that far. But if you’re so busy working that you don’t even have time for simple physical contact with a pretty woman, it makes sense that porn with endless foreplay, featuring women you would find attractive, might be appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/74 "2013-07-01T17:33:45Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Aside from being homogenous, Japan is also still very insular. As much as I love the beauty of Japanese women, I can’t stand watching Japanese porn. It’s very clearly aimed at Japanese men. Japan has been experiencing a population _decrease_ for some years now, largely because people are so busy working that they don’t have time to go out and meet people of the opposite sex. While Japan has one of the lowest birth rates in the world, it is hardly unique in having a birth rate below the replacement rate. This is the case in many, perhaps most, developed nations. The reason the Japanese population is decreasing is that they have a low birth rate _and_ allow very little immigration from other countries. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/75 "2013-07-01T17:50:51Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I agree; whether something is taboo is not, in itself, sufficient explanation. But it does seem to be a significant factor. …well, except for all the times when it, you know, isn’t. Doesn’t seem as if this taboo model has very much predictive power in and of itself. You won’t find any single model that is, really. We are talking about a pretty complex system here, which is why I have to laugh whenever I see someone coming in here to propose their “it’s just common sense!” two paragraph long unified theory of male sexual pecadillo explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/76 "2013-07-01T18:10:18Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > And if nearly all the mainstream, easily accessible porn depicted red headed freckled women, wouldn’t you find yourself suffering a predilection of same? And if you lived in a say…Middle Eastern clime, or a Far Eastern locale, you’d suffer a distinct deficit of red headed freckledy women. Right? Actually no I wouldn’t, just as if most mainstream, easily accessible porn showed women with fashion model physiques, then I wouldn’t bother looking it up. And **COLANDER** do you think that it might be possible for you to stop putting up strawmen every time you post ? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/77 "2013-07-01T18:22:31Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Actually no I wouldn’t, just as if most mainstream, easily accessible porn showed women with fashion model physiques, then I wouldn’t bother looking it up. > > And **COLANDER** do you think that it might be possible for you to stop putting up strawmen every time you post ? Alright, expert. Explain \*trends \*in porn please. Start with MILF porn, if you like, as it’s a relatively recent addition to the library. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/78 "2013-07-01T18:44:03Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Actually no I wouldn’t, just as if most mainstream, easily accessible porn showed women with fashion model physiques, then I wouldn’t bother looking it up. I understand that that is what you _feel_ about yourself, but of course in reality you have no way of demonstrating that it is actually true. Certainly differential distribution of humanity’s sexual proclivities across space and time that we can easily observe exists in the what we currently understand to constitute “reality” would seem to cast your “It’s just biology, stoopid!” hypothesis into serious doubt. > [@](#): > > And **COLANDER** do you think that it might be possible for you to stop putting up strawmen every time you post ? Well, if by “putting up strawmen” you mean “advancing cogently-formulated rational arguments containing cites to relevant data collected from the real world that unfortunately doesn’t happen to concur with **Lust4Life** ’s apparently empirically unsupportable beliefs about human sexuality”, then no. No, I shan’t. But would you mind terribly if I once again asked you to provide some sort of evidence that you feel controverts my view? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/79 "2013-07-01T19:00:25Z")
Nobody can fully explain the changes in clothing fashions, either. It’s just a thing. Something strikes a chord and it resonates and it becomes trendy. Advertisers spend millions of dollars a year trying to figure out why and what and how it works, and even they only get it right sometimes. I see no reason why fashions in pornography should be easier to explain than fashion in skirt length. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162/80 "2013-07-01T22:15:46Z")
I don’t see why porn trends would be much different from, say, music trends. In popular music, record companies don’t suddenly flood the market with a never-before-heard style of music, followed by “everybody” liking it. Instead, you get one or two artists that come out with a new sound/style, and people like it, so those artists sell well … and then the record companies say, “Well then, we need more of THAT!” and start hunting down and signing similar artists, or “encouraging” their existing artists to adopt the new style. Same thing with porn. I first watched hardcore porn around 1986, and at that time there were very few mainstream porn actresses with completely-shaved pubes (and you rarely saw shaved pubes in men’s magazines). But the handful who _were_ shaved proved popular, which prompted more pube-shaving, _because it sold_. In “real life”, women were already trimming their pubes to compensate for shrinking bikinis and underwear, and I imagine it was the growing popularity of thongs that prompted them to take it even further. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-porn-influence-the-perception-of-womens-bodies/662162.md?page=5)