# How much does the average European know about all the other European nations? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 4, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481 "2022-03-04T22:42:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/21 "2022-03-07T20:08:01Z")
I expect we’ll all “deal with it” by pointing and laughing at the profound silliness. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/22 "2022-03-08T03:05:16Z")
You’re confusing ass backwards politics and gaslighting with data. Plenty of highly educated people who can dominate whatever geography quiz show you put them on are deluded into this tribalism we’re seeing now. It’s fanaticism, not ignorance. Most of them aren’t too dumb to get it, they simply choose not to. There’s relatively fewer idiots on the left, but there’s still a metric ton of them. And if you think there aren’t tribal fuckwits in Europe you haven’t been paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/23 "2022-03-08T16:16:24Z")
It there _is_ plenty of data to support the assertion that the American is more ignorant of the world, current events, and basic math and science than the average European. Americans finish below most European countries on basic knowledge tests. It’s not too much of a leap to extrapolate from that data that stupid people build stupid cultures and embrace stupid politics. It might be an unpleasant thing to hear, but don’t pretend there isn’t data to support it. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/24 "2022-03-08T16:19:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Maybe if you threw in the Mexican states and the Canadian states the Americans would improve a bit Ahem. [Provinces and territories of Canada - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_and_territories_of_Canada) ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/25 "2022-03-08T18:04:44Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > It there _is_ plenty of data to support the assertion that the American is more ignorant of the world, current events, and basic math and science than the average European. Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/26 "2022-03-09T03:05:55Z")
Recently released data from international math and science assessments indicate that U.S. students continue to rank around the middle of the pack, and behind many other advanced industrial nations. > **[U.S. students' academic achievement still lags that of their peers in many...](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/)** > > U.S. students continue to rank near the middle, and behind many other advanced industrial nations, in international math, science and reading assessments. Most troubling to researchers is that 30 countries scored higher than U.S. students in math and that the performance gap between top-performing and lower-performing students is widening, especially in reading. > **[U.S. Students Show No Improvement in Math, Reading, Science on International...](https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-12-03/us-students-show-no-improvement-in-math-reading-science-on-international-exam)** > > Most troubling among the results was that an international performance gap in education is widening. Teenagers in the United States continue to lag behind their peers in East Asia and Europe in reading, math and science, according to results of an international exam that suggest U.S. schools are not doing enough to prepare young people for the competitive global economy. > **[U.S. students continue to lag behind peers in East Asia and Europe in...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-students-continue-to-lag-behind-peers-in-east-asia-and-europe-in-reading-math-and-science-exams-show/2019/12/02/e9e3b37c-153d-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html)** > > The tests underscored widening disparities between low- and high-performing students. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/27 "2022-03-09T04:51:51Z")
I know you think this supports your point, but it doesn’t. Unless of course you’re intentionally moving the goal posts. There are 44 countries in Europe (according to the UN) or 50 if you include countries like Turkey and Greenland. We’ll use 44 since that would make the bar a little higher. Looking at your first link, the US is 24th in Science. If you don’t actually look at the data you will think this supports your point…but that’s the catch, you have to look. Of the 23 countries which are ahead of the US only 13 of them are in Europe. That’s not close to half of 44 which is what would be required for your point to be accurate by the most simple measure. Making the case even weaker, of those 13 countries only 4 of them are in the top 10 of population in Europe. The largest country by far in Europe is Russia, which is 20% of the population is down at 32. So no, the “average” American is not worse than the “average” European in Science and it’s not even very close. While you can accurately say that the US lags behind “the average European” math, that is just one category. These 3 subjects, based on standardized testing of one age group, does does reflect “education” in any broad sense. I won’t address the point that all three of your links cite the exact same limited metric. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/28 "2022-03-09T15:41:10Z")
Which students are the other countries testing compared to which students the US is testing ? Sure, two of the articles say that 15 year olds are tested - but which 15 year olds? I remember reading about a similar comparison between education in the US and that in other countries , but it turned out that part of the difference was which students were given the tests. To the best of my recollection, some countries only gave it to students who were attending academic high schools and not those enrolled in vocational education while in the US it was given to a broader group of students. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/29 "2022-03-09T22:46:46Z")
This is a symptom of why America is falling so far behind. We are incapable of admitting the truth about ourselves. Instead of admitting what is patently obvious we instead insist that the facts are wrong. Any nation that elects Donald Trump is a nation of morons. All our lives we’ve been told that America is the greatest place on earth and we believe it, just like the Russians believe that they are liberating Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/30 "2022-03-09T23:06:21Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > All our lives we’ve been told that America is the greatest place on earth and we believe it, just like the Russians believe that they are liberating Ukraine. I don’t think the average Russian believes they are liberating Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/31 "2022-03-09T23:10:31Z")
🙄 Yes, Trump is evidence that America is stupid…you win. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/32 "2022-03-10T12:15:13Z")
No, I lose as did the world. How about you provide some cites that show Americans are as well informed about current events, geography, math and science? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/33 "2022-03-10T12:16:35Z")
> **[58 percent of Russians support the invasion of Ukraine, and 23 percent oppose...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/08/russia-public-opinion-ukraine-invasion/)** > > The survey of Russian adults, conducted by independent research organizations in Russia last week, found relatively weak support for Moscow's invasion of Ukraine compared to past incursions. > **[On Ukraine, Many Russians Have No Doubt: It’s the Fault of the U.S.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/world/europe/russia-public-opinion-ukraine-us-nato.html)** > > The idea that the U.S. and NATO are fomenting the crisis between Russia and Ukraine is hammered home daily by the Kremlin’s propaganda machine. > **[Putin’s public approval is soaring during the Russia-Ukraine crisis, but it's...](https://theconversation.com/putins-public-approval-is-soaring-during-the-russia-ukraine-crisis-but-its-unlikely-to-last-177302)** > > Approximately 69% of Russians approve of President Vladimir Putin. But a costly war is likely to chip away at his popularity, history and data tell us. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/34 "2022-03-10T17:37:33Z")
You did that job for me. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/35 "2022-03-10T22:57:33Z")
That’s a very odd comment. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/36 "2022-03-14T14:22:48Z")
Well, this thread went south fast. To get back to the OP, I don’t for a moment think that Europeans in general are smarter than Americans, and if we know more about other countries within Europe, it’s likely because our countries are smaller, so other countries are our near neighbours, and many many of us travel to other European countries for our holidays. It’s why most of us have passports, and most Americans don’t. It doesn’t mean we’re more worldly, it’s just a practical way of dealing with our geography. I know about Greek islands, because I’ve been there on holiday. I have visited a lot of European cities, because they make for an easy weekend trip. It’s got nothing to do with how good the education system is. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/37 "2022-03-14T18:25:26Z")
I spent the first 14 years of my life (mostly) in the U.K. and the rest in the U.S., so I’m well-positioned to speak on this. I would posit that the average European knows more about _many_ other European states than the average American does about the other states of North America. But the average European likely knows much less about _many_ European states than the average American does about Canada and Mexico, and possibly even less than Americans know about Honduras, Nicaragua, etc. To the extent that there’s a difference, I agree with **SanVito** that it’s because the U.S. itself is so much larger and essentially more self-contained than any individual European state, and because other European states are much more important day-to-day in the lives of Europeans than any North American state is to a USian. Most people in Britain who are fully awake will be able to name the heads of state of Germany, France, Italy\*, Spain, and so on, because those people directly impact British peoples’ lives (even today). Most Americans’ lives are not affected by who is running Canada or Mexico. Heck, I have been in the U.S. for 26 years and I’m very well-educated and typically up on current affairs, and the last Mexican president I can name is Vicente Fox. \*Italy might be a bad example since it has a new head of state every six weeks. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/38 "2022-03-14T19:09:30Z")
Tegucigalpa. Took me about two seconds. Also, I agree with what @doreen said. One of those US vs. the World tests was all US students vs. cherry-picked kids (i.e. not the vocational ed kids) from Europe. One thing that always sneaks up on me is how really small western Europe is. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/39 "2022-03-14T21:23:42Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > One thing that always sneaks up on me is how really small western Europe is. I never really realized it until I noticed a old friend of mine who lives in Ljubljana seemed to be traveling “internationally” every other week - and then I checked and discovered that there are 10 or 15 countries within a eight hour drive of Ljubljana. I can drive eight hours and still be in my own state and the only other country I might make it to in eight hours is Canada. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481/40 "2022-03-14T23:32:09Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I can drive eight hours and still be in my own state and the only other country I might make it to in eight hours is Canada. The first part is true for me, but the second clause would have Mexico instead of Canada, and if I left in the middle of the night, I could probably get there in less than 3 hours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-does-the-average-european-know-about-all-the-other-european-nations/960481.md?page=3)