# How much fossil fuel is left? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 22, 2000, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261 "2000-11-22T09:24:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/21 "2001-04-13T04:30:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Groundskeeper Willie \* > \*\*This theory was proposed by Thomas Gold about 15 years ago. The basic idea is that when the Earth was formed, it included a _lot_ of organic material in carbonaceous chondrites (which make up several percent of all known meteorites). This material was then ‘cooked’ in the Earth’s interior and then some small fraction of it rose up to the surface, and some small fraction of _that_ was trapped as natural gas, of (after bacterial action) as petroleum. > > For a long time this hypothesis was ignored, but several tests of it have shown support for it. The main test that I am aware of was a drill-hole in central Sweden, in the "Siljan Ring’ IIRC, which is an ancient meteor crator located in volcanic/plutonic rock, where _no_ hydrocarbon at all should be found. What was found was small amounts of natural gas, and that the deeper the drill-hole the greater the amounts. In addition, ‘black muck’ was recovered, which when analysed, turned out to be bacterial in origin.\*\* Talk about synchronicity. I was just re-reading _ **More of the Straight Dope** _ last week when I came across Cecil’s column on the subject (it’s not in the archives yet–I checked!). It got me curious if there had been any follow-ups, so I did a little web surfing and found that there have been even more results since Cecil’s original article. The Russians, working from Gold’s theory, apparently have productive oil wells drilled into “basement rock, far below the sedimentary strata. Here, where fossils have never penetrated, hydrocarbons are found in abundance.” [Quoted from Paul V. Sheridan’s article [“Hydrocarbon Fuels Are Not Fossils: The A-Biogenic Theory”] ([http://www.aldenchronicles.com/email\_archives.html](http://www.aldenchronicles.com/email_archives.html)). The article is quoted in its entirety in the second e-mail message on the page. I haven’t been able to find production figures for these wells, though. There is more information to be found on [Thomas Gold’s web page](http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/tg21/index.html), and [here](http://www.prouty.org/oil.html). ---
**Author:** ![exchicagoan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/0ea827/32.png) [@exchicagoan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/exchicagoan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/22 "2001-04-13T05:47:03Z")
If oil was the product of the dinosaurs buried DEEP in the earth—why are their bones so easy to find and dig up? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/23 "2001-04-13T11:24:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by exchicagoan \* > \*\* > If oil was the product of the dinosaurs buried DEEP in the earth—why are their bones so easy to find and dig up? \*\* Oil, gas, and coal hydrocarbon deposits are not the result of animal matter. Sure, there is plenty of animal matter in them, but the vast, vast majority of the hydrocarbons comes from plant and vegetable matter. The “dinosaurs are gasoline” myth is one still taught by elementary school teachers today, and reinforced by such little things as the Sinclair gasoline sign - the one with the Apatasaurus/Brontosaurus on it. And even though it is not really relevant, oil, gas, and coal deposits are/were found on the surface, and readily available. Indians in the US used to take coal from outcroppings and burn it, and use it for pigment. In the bluffs near a lake about 30 miles away, I can dig coal out by looking hard for a little, 0.5-inch high seam. And in many areas of the world oil and gas make it to the surface, and were used by the ancients. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/24 "2001-04-13T15:13:49Z")
UncleBeer wrote: > [@](#): > > Way back in my thermodynamics classes, we used 290°K, which approximately equals 62°F (or 17°C), for calculations with STP. Then Anthracite wrote: > [@](#): > > in the natural gas industry in the United States, STP is often defined by tradition as being at 60 F. It is normally 32 F for most other circumstances. Hmph. I guess STP isn’t quite as S as its name implies. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/25 "2001-04-13T16:01:56Z")
Just to tick **Antracite** off, I have to add that Tommy Gold thinks that coal is abiotic in origin too. [gloat]I get to see him talk Monday, but not about fossil fuels–he’s got some wacko theory on Io’s volcanoes.[/gloat] ---
**Author:** ![Tedster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@Tedster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tedster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/26 "2001-04-13T16:15:06Z")
Encyclopaedia Brittanica has quite a breakdown of fossil fuels and how long they might last. We’re set for a couple hundred years with known reserves of oil, coal for much longer. I only wish I could have told my “teachers” that in school, I recall dire predictions and much hand wringing in elementary and junior high-- “We’ll be out of oil by the year 2000.” Outright lies don’t help the situation nor cultivate a concern among the great Unwashed. Anyway, we pay _way_ too much for fuel, and not a little of that in taxes. Europe is even worse. (they pay anwhere from 4~5 USD per gallon) But, one day we won’t need near the fossil fuels we do now. Yay. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/27 "2001-04-13T16:30:33Z")
In another thread about getting energy from the difference in temperature between surface and deep water I posted a link to and article. [http://www.wws.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/byteserv.prl/~ota/disk3/1978/7815/781504.PDF](http://www.wws.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/byteserv.prl/~ota/disk3/1978/7815/781504.PDF) the article Georges Claude worked on the idea for getting energy from the ocean because he thought that we were in danger of running out of oil in a few years. “the federal oil consevation baord estimates that the US has only enough oil to last 6 years” This was written in 1926. We have been about to run out of oil for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![egkelly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/db5fbb/32.png) [@egkelly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/egkelly)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/28 "2001-04-13T16:30:36Z")
Interesting thread. I have always been interested in Dr. Gold’s theories-if he right, we should have no problems. But back to the (biological origin) of petroleum: many years ago, my dad had a friend whio was an engineer at a local oil-fired electric plant. I remember him giving us a tour of the plant-and he mentioned that several times a year, workers would clean the smokestacks. The deposits in the smokestacks were very valuble, as they contained a large amount of the metal vanadium. The vanadium was from the blood of the ancient dinosaurs. My question is this-where I live (New England) was a nice swampy place during the Cretacious era-we have lots of dinosaur tracks in the Connecticut river valley-how come we don’t have any oil wells here? A few years back, a drilling company tried some wildcat oil wells in vermont-they came up dry! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/29 "2001-04-13T19:09:06Z")
> [@](#): > > The vanadium was from the blood of the ancient dinosaurs. My question is this-where I live (New England) was a nice swampy place during the Cretacious era-we have lots of dinosaur tracks in the Connecticut river valley-how come we don’t have any oil wells here? I’ll save **Anthracite** the trouble of saying this again: Fossil fuels don’t come from dinosaurs. I’ve also never heard that blood has any significant amounts of vanadium (certianly less than iron), and even if it did, it would come from the plants that dinosaurs ate, so finding vanadium in fossil fuels wouldn’t mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/30 "2001-04-13T21:17:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*I’ve also never heard that blood has any significant amounts of vanadium (certianly less than iron), and even if it did, it would come from the plants that dinosaurs ate, so finding vanadium in fossil fuels wouldn’t mean anything. \*\* Vanadium is present in phosphate rocks and iron ores, and dissolves into the oil as it lies in underground deposits. It is also found in coal, but not nearly in the same quantities, as the coal forms a pretty homogenous, inert mass in its bed. Whereas the oil can undergo flow motion, convection, etc. and thus dissolve more salts and minerals containing vanadium. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/31 "2001-04-13T21:19:20Z")
A thread from last September, [Fossil Fuels](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=38077), concentrated more on the oil and gas part of our future with fossil fuel. And another, [Depletion (or not) of oil reserves](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=6879), from October of 1999. And a site that is generally relevant: [Fossil Energy](http://www.fe.doe.gov/) While it’s theoretically possible to get a bit of _T. rex_ in your tank, microscopic marine life (both fauna and flora) is the original source of most petroleum; that’s why we are usually looking for it where oceans used to be (i.e., marine or near-marine paleoenvironments). Coal is out of my normal range of ponderings; here’s a couple of sites that address coal origins: [Coal Formation](http://collections.ic.gc.ca/coal/impact/tcoalfrm.html) [Conifers and the Coal Question](http://www.geocities.com/aleph135/morwell18.html) defends the transport theory of coal formation versus the in-situ hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2001, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/32 "2001-04-14T20:52:44Z")
The term STP (standard temperature and pressure) is generally used when working with gases. It is defined as 1 atm and 273.15 K (0 deg C). Thermodynamicists use “standand conditions,” which were originally defined as 1 atm and “a temperature of interest.” Recently, the IUPAC has adopted the **bar** as the standard pressure for thermodynamic quantities: 1 bar = 10[sup]5[/sup] pascals = 0.9869 atm. The “temperature of interest” used for most (but not all) thermodynamics tables is 298.15 K (25 deg C). ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/33 "2001-04-15T00:05:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robby \* > \*\*Thermodynamicists use “standand conditions,” which were originally defined as 1 atm and “a temperature of interest.” Recently, the IUPAC has adopted the **bar** as the standard pressure for thermodynamic quantities: 1 bar = 10[sup]5[/sup] pascals = 0.9869 atm. > > The “temperature of interest” used for most (but not all) thermodynamics tables is 298.15 K (25 deg C). \*\* But this still doesn’t change my point from above. My values for natural gas volumes came from the DoE, which like the rest of the natural gas industry in the US, use 60 F as their “standard” temperature. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261/34 "2001-04-19T18:58:26Z")
Yeah! And 60 degrees Fahrenheit is only 15-and-a-half degrees Celsius! Hah! Put **that** in your pipe at STP and smoke it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-fossil-fuel-is-left/42261.md?page=1)