# How much frailer are modern washers than older ones? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 14, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938 "2021-04-14T01:39:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/41 "2021-04-14T17:02:42Z")
My washer and dryer were a Black Friday deal from Sears from 2008 (remember when the recession was just starting and stores were offering ridiculous deals just to slow the bleeding?). I bought them because I needed a washer/dryer and those were the cheapest ones I could find new. The washer has never needed any repairs for the 12+ years I’ve owned it\*. I did have to replace the circuit board on the dryer, which was pretty easy. I ordered the part from Sears for around $100, and replacing it was pretty straightforward and required only a screwdriver. \*With the caveat that as a single person I’m surely doing fewer loads than a family of four would. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/42 "2021-04-14T17:07:27Z")
Front load or Top Load? ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/43 "2021-04-14T17:14:24Z")
Front Load. Forgot to mention that. ETA: And they’re branded as Kenmore, but there’s a way to figure out who actually built them based on the model number. Based on that I discovered they were built by one of the Korean makers, but now I can’t remember if it was LG or Samsung. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/44 "2021-04-14T17:31:11Z")
Recently replaced a Kenmore. It was made in 1969. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/45 "2021-04-14T17:46:03Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@FairyChatMom](#): > > > > A decade or so back, we had to call a dryer repairman for the avocado dryer that had been left in the house by the sellers. > > I have immense respect for the agent who found a buyer for the house who shared the seller’s predilection for dried avocados. Everybody’s a comedian… 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/46 "2021-04-14T18:29:15Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I will never buy an LG product again. > > … > > And at this point I would prefer anything to an LG. Our experience with LG is exactly the opposite. We bough an LG set from Lowe’s in early 2013 and have used it essentially daily since then – the only time we haven’t used it is when we’ve been on vacation which is rare. With two kids in the house we often run more than one load through it each day. We clean it regularly with washing machine cleaner, leave the door and the soap drawer wide open when it’s not actively running, and clean out the filter periodically. I don’t know if that’s contributed to its longevity but I conservatively estimate we’ve run 3,500 loads through it and it’s still going strong (knock on wood). > [@What\_Exit](#): > > I have zero experience with front loading washers, but I keep hearing that today’s appliances are only good for about 7 years. I hope that is not true. My grandfather had to replace his old washing machine (don’t know the brand) a few years ago and chose a Speed Queen. The independent appliance store he bought it from said the same thing: a 7-year lifespan on modern washers is the normal expectation. I have [one of these](https://www.amazon.com/Laundry-Alternative-Wonderwash-Retro-Colors/dp/B07FTXG5SG) and [one of these](https://www.amazon.com/Laundry-Alternative-Centrifugal-High-Tech-Suspension/dp/B07X3MWR3V) stored in my garage. I used them when I lived in an apartment and had no washing machine and now use them for tie-dyeing. The washer is slow, doesn’t hold much, but it works well and certainly won’t break down halfway through a wash. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/47 "2021-04-14T19:54:54Z")
> [@Lancia](#): > > Our experience with LG is exactly the opposite. Well, as they say, YMMV. The early failure of an expensive washer was only part of my problem with LG. The other part – and really bad failure on their side – was the crappy customer service. As I said, the first agent mistakenly told me I was eligible for a flat service fee under a sort of unannounced extended warranty, while the second one brusquely told me I was not, and even thouigh it was just barely past the specified time interval, as I said, their message was “sucks to be you”. Not the slightest empathy or attempt to be helpful. Well, my answer to that is it sucks to be LG. I now have a Maytag and am very happy with it. Of course, Maytag customer service may suck as well, but I’m hoping the old TV ads were right and I’ll never need to see a Maytag repairman! 😃 (Yes, I know the newer Maytags are all made by Whirlpool anyway.) FWIW, a friend bought a new upscale Maytag dishwasher and had a total failure of some critical component that would have been expensive to fix, just after the warranty expired (when else, right?). Maytag did replace it for him, but I believe it took some cajoling. Meanwhile I have an old low-end Amana dishwasher that has only had one problem, when the door latch/interlock assembly physically broke. It was easy to replace myself and it’s still going strong. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/48 "2021-04-14T23:33:28Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The average washing machine bought today for a home has a life expectancy of around 11 years for a front-loader and 14 years for a top-loader. That agrees with the OP. Let’s say 3 loads a week, 50 weeks a year, 1650 cycles for a front-loader. Once your kids have left home, it will last as long as you do: If you have a large active family you may have to replace several times. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/49 "2021-04-15T00:30:57Z")
We have a Maytag that my parents bought in the '80s. The only repair it’s ever needed was to re-level the legs when it started crawling across the floor toward the drain. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/50 "2021-04-15T00:43:19Z")
It’s not the same thing but Yale Appliance in boston posts yearly stats on first-year repairs for the different brands. The problem is I don’t think they make all years available. It would be interesting to notice the trends. In their blog posts they indicate that brand quality comes and goes. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/51 "2021-04-15T18:34:47Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I certainly have recollections of washers used by my parents’ generation requiring repair from time to time. I suspect the real issue isn’t that washers now don’t last – it’s that servicing has become so expensive, and new products have become so cheap, that the equation has tipped towards early replacement. This is also my opinion. My mother’s first automatic was forever needing service. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/52 "2021-04-16T19:30:16Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I would have thought that older machines would have been more mechanically complex (and less reliable) because they would have required a lot of electro-mechanical control systems. Contrastingly, the modern machines have a microprocessor that controls everything, and solid-state electronics are notoriously reliable. I’ve had to replace the main motor, the dampers for the drum, and one relay in 15 years. Replacement of the motor and dampers was trivially easy. Tracking down the failing relay took me a while but was ten minutes of soldering once I figured out the problem. They may have more going on with the mechanics - but those were not terribly hard (or expensive) to fix. Now that the machines are all computer-controlled, however… The control boards have been the point of failure on several of our most recent appliance purchases. We bought a front-loader quite a few years ago - I don’t recall the exact dates, but it started having significant problems within 5 years or so. Circuit board replacement is a large chunk of the purchase price of a new machine. I know it lasted less than 10 years - probably more like 8, and that was with paying $$ for an extended warranty. The matching dryer lasted a bit longer but also developed problems. My husband wasted several hundred dollars fixing whatever the error code said was wrong, before I put my foot down and bought a new one (similar tales of when he tried to fix our previous dishwasher, and our over-the-oven microwave). We had a Maytag washer and dryer in our previous house - bought in 1989. A friend who was an appliance repairman did a couple minor fixes on one or the other and said “you should keep this going as long as you can, these can last forever”. I asked him about the Neptune series (fairly new then, this was around 2000 or so) and he said they were great but that one should keep an extended warranty going. My in-laws live in a condo in Florida with a washer / dryer that are probably 20+ years old and still working fine. We bought our front-loader after we moved, and per the friend’s advice we did keep the extended warranty - which as noted, paid off :(. There was a LOT of downtime though: the days of a tech arriving with a truckful of most replacement parts are now long gone. They’ll come, determine what the problem might be, and order the part and come back in a week or three. If you’re lucky, they guess right and the machine works. If you’re not, you have to call them and repeat the above. If you’re REALLY “lucky”, the replacement part will even be faulty. Yeah, he was gonna install the part and breeze out the door; I made him start the machine (or try to). My WAG: These newer machines have so many more features, run more efficiently, etc. - but that means that many more points of failure - and in my direct experience, once ANYTHING goes wrong, the cost is awfully close to the price of a replacement machine. Even if you’re very, very handy, the replacement parts are steep - about 250+ on the microwave (wasted). Similar amount on the dryer. Similar amount on the dishwasher. Having a technician in to do the work would have added a hundred or more to each of those. Not that the question has arisen - yet - but I won’t let my husband do that again. Anyway: The washer we inherited with the current house was actually still working when we had to replace the dryer - which was at most 10 years old; I replaced the washer at the same time because I wanted a front loader. See above. That front loader lasted maybe 8 years. The dryer, maybe 10. At our old place, the machines were 13 years old and going strong (with that one minor repair to one of them). I really wanted the efficiency of the front-loader, but after having been burned I compromised with a top-loading HE machine. The dishwasher has failed and been replaced. Twice. We bought the extended warranty on the current one and it has already paid off. The over-the-stove microwave failed a year after we moved in. Had it repaired (200 bucks or so) and it died again within 1 year. We did without - but finally replaced it, and THAT lasted maybe 5 years before dying. That seems to be the nature of those built-ins though (the one we installed in our old house evidently died at 2 years old, we heard). ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/53 "2021-04-16T19:40:02Z")
So doing the math on the SFGate article: 1600 cycles, over 11 years, is just under 3 loads a week (145 loads a year). We do more loads than that - but even at 5 loads a week that would be just over 6 years. So it’s not implausible, though it does seem on the low side. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/54 "2021-04-19T01:13:35Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > The control boards have been the point of failure on several of our most recent appliance purchases. > [snip] > Circuit board replacement is a large chunk of the purchase price of a new machine. True but you may well not need to replace the board. On our front loader the mainboard had a fault. No doubt a technician would have just said the only option was to replace it. Most modern repair technicians can’t fix anything they can only replace parts. Same as auto mechanics. A new mainboard was about $400 new. But if you know a little bit about electronics you know that solid-state opponents are quite bullet-proof and that the points of failure, 90% of the time, are electrolytic capacitors and relays both of which are relatively easy to diagnose and replace. On ours it was the relay and it cost only a few dollars to replace. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/55 "2021-04-19T06:12:29Z")
Technician couldn’t source a replacement board for my mothers central heating. It wasn’t even a capacitor: one of the tracks had lifted. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/56 "2021-04-19T06:44:09Z")
So did you/they fix it? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/57 "2021-04-19T10:24:30Z")
Yes. I was surprised that the tech didn’t offer to do that: it’s possible that heater installation / repair training doesn’t include electrical soldering, or it’s possible that it’s not even legal in my state (aus is trending that way, and it’s already not legal in at least one state). ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/58 "2021-04-19T10:37:26Z")
What isn’t legal? ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/59 "2021-04-19T10:56:59Z")
I have noticed that whatever appliance I purchase: refrigerator, washing machine, television, etc, the salesperson eventually asks me how long I had the old appliance. Whatever I say, the response is “Oh, you can’t expect that the new ones will last that long.” > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I saw a report on CBS Sunday Morning about people who actually collect and use old, vintage washing machines, so one option is to seek one of those out. I remember decades ago when the mechanical control on our washer failed, we were able to get a refurbished replacement through the local appliance parts dealer. For your entertainment: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jmmmxI-Y_6U/hqdefault.jpg "Washing machine collectors awash with enthusiasm on laundry day") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmmmxI-Y_6U) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938/60 "2021-04-19T12:46:39Z")
> [@Bonum\_Legatum](#): > > Whatever I say, the response is “Oh, you can’t expect that the new ones will last that long.” Is that followed by an attempt to sell you an extended warranty? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-frailer-are-modern-washers-than-older-ones/939938.md?page=4)