# How much geography is necessary to the average person? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 12, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394 "2006-04-12T16:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/21 "2006-04-12T18:47:06Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > Might wanna step back and let others make your point, **Cheesy**. > > Just sayin’. 😃😉 Maybe he meant British Hondouras, AKA Belize. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/22 "2006-04-12T19:14:59Z")
I suppose that depends on whether we think a _generalist_ education beats a _specialist_ education. Ideally, everybody would be intelligent and educated both broadly and deeply. That’s not likely to happen. So given the choice, I’d rather have my doctor tell me, “I don’t know how to find Turkey on a map, I don’t know the two national currencies of China, and I can’t say who is president of Mexico, but I **can** treat your disease” than the other way around. Where it all falls down, at least in the U.S., is that even the dumb ones vote. I’d settle for ignorant people, as long as they had the intellectual curiosity to educate themselves — if temporarily — about a subject that matters. Most people lack that essential curiosity, in my experience, and fail to recognize the depth of their own ignorance. Most students around me in school thought the classes were just to keep the sports and playtime from bumping into each other. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/23 "2006-04-12T19:21:58Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I think the issue is that it makes americans look ignorant when they don’t know these things. For example, I have had conversations with canadian friends who know every US state and it’s capital. How many americans can say the same with canadian provinces? I think it is safe to say that it is certainly the very rare Canadian who can name all the states and their capitals. I think I have met one person in my whole life who’d know all fifty and be able to ring them off. Quite a few Canadians do not know how many states there are; you’d think 50 would be easy to remember, but I guess not. I have known reasonably intelligent and educated Canadians who didn’t know all the provincial capitals, and we only have ten. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/24 "2006-04-12T19:24:04Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Brook Shields once declared, “I didn’t know Chicago was on an ocean!!!” Would that be Brooke’s more geographically _(or would that be geologically; what the hell - riparian!)_ inclined sibling? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/25 "2006-04-12T20:09:53Z")
> [@Edward The Head](#): > > I think people tend to forget how big the US really is. It would take the same amount of time, or longer, to go either east west across the US as it would across Europe. The same could be said about going north south. The reason that people seem to know more in other contries is because they live near them. Of course someone in Holland is going to know the countries around them, the same as someone living in Maryland is going to know the states around them. I think this is part of it. If you live in the middle of Texas you can drive 8 hours in any direction and still be in the same state. And even if you’re crossing state boundaries it’s not like there’s huge differences in culture and language. “Wow! We left Kansas and entered Oklahoma. The wide open farmland is so different here. Let’s stop at that Cracker Barrel and take pictures of the natives.” So because it’s not really too important to know local geography, it makes it easier to not know much about world geography. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/26 "2006-04-12T20:42:14Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Maybe he meant British Hondouras, AKA Belize. Yeah, that’s it. Wasn’t just a dopey mistake on my part. Which is worse, bad geography, or bad proofreading? YOU make the call! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/27 "2006-04-12T20:48:39Z")
> [@Edward The Head](#): > > I think people tend to forget how big the US really is. It would take the same amount of time, or longer, to go either east west across the US as it would across Europe. The same could be said about going north south. The reason that people seem to know more in other contries is because they live near them. Of course someone in Holland is going to know the countries around them, the same as someone living in Maryland is going to know the states around them. I agree with this I mean, “we” love to joke about “you” Americans who don’t realise where different European countries are etc. but at the same time your average European couldn’t correctly locate more than a handful of US states on a map (those probably including California, Alaska, Texas, Florida). What I would expect, of anyone, nationality irrelevant, would be that once a country or region became important in the news that they educate themselves as necessary before spouting their ideas/opinions in ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/28 "2006-04-12T21:00:13Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I think the issue is that it makes americans look ignorant when they don’t know these things. For example, I have had conversations with canadian friends who know every US state and it’s capital. How many americans can say the same with canadian provinces? Maybe not capitals always, but if you tell me the name of even a small American city, I could probably tell you the state right away. This is because Americans have a rather useful habit of more often than not seeming to give the state after the city. Here, we’d just say "Sydney’ or ‘Melbourne’, but Americans give ‘Los Angeles, California’, or ‘Omaha, Nebraska’. It might seem redundant, especially in the case of large cities like L.A., but it does have a cumulative rote learning effect when heard over a lifetime. When the Winter Olympics were in the US, we had a late night programme on TV here that was hosted by two Australian comedians in the US. They’d finish the show by giving the Australian weather. They’d set up a map on a tripod in a busy street, and ask passing Americans if they’d mind presenting the weather spot. Of course, the map had all the cities deliberately in the wrong spot, or they’d leave the big cities off, and put tiny country towns in, especially if they had humourous names like “Oodnadatta” or “Come-By-Chance” (pop. 50). Was it a cheap shot? Well, yeah. Was it funny? You bet. ---
**Author:** ![Logan\_5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/fbc32d/32.png) [@Logan\_5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logan_5)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/29 "2006-04-12T22:08:18Z")
At the risk of sounding like a total prick, I’d have to say the averge person is a dolt. So no, knowing more than local geography isn’t necessary if all you aspire to is going to the mall, the local bar and grocery store and your biggest interest is tending your lawn. And there’s nothing wrong with any of that, if that’s what you want. However I believe that to be able to appreciate, engage and compete in this world, the more you know the better off you are. That goes beyond just geography. As someone stated earlier, it is the yearning to better one’s self, to know more and to better understand that is so important, not just memorizing facts. I assume most of us here on the SDMB came here from an enjoyment of reading The Straight Dope in your local newspaper, the books, or the website. That interest already shows a desire to better understand the world around you. So you are all above-average persons (shameless attempt to cover my ass, lol). Actually truth be told, since I had to spend the 3rd grade memorizing geography flash cards, then I expect everyone else should as well, gosh darn it! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/30 "2006-04-12T22:37:13Z")
I remember doing a country quiz as a ten year-old. I’ve forgotten all the countries we had to do except for two, because I remember thinking, ‘Yep, Iraq’s on the left, Iran’s on the right’. I think that’s a reasonably good standard of education for a bunch of Aussie ten year-olds. It could always be better, but it was adequate. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/31 "2006-04-12T22:41:48Z")
It’s actually a cool rainy-day game to play at home too, if you introduce an element of fun into it. My son loved my globe, so I bought him an atlas (not a kiddie atlas either, but a quality one) because I remember also loving maps as a kid. So, we play capitals, and also flags. Him: What’s the capital of Germany? Me: Ummmm… Brasilia? Him: No, silly. (lots of giggles) Me: Berlin Him: That’s too easy. What’s the capital of Madagascar? He was only seven when I taught him all that. Or more to the point, I convinced him it was fun, and he taught himself most of it. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/32 "2006-04-12T22:49:49Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > I suppose that depends on whether we think a _generalist_ education beats a _specialist_ education. It doesn’t BEAT a specialist education but I would have thought a basic generalist education was nesscary to get your MD. I wouldn’t expect my doctor to write a thesis on Turkish history, but I’d expect him to know where it WAS. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/33 "2006-04-12T22:54:19Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Well then, allow me to be the first! Actually, there is a certain amount of geography that a person should know, in order to not be an ignorant fool. Knowing the 50 states, and where they are generally, knowing the names of major cities (though not necessarily all of the state capitals). Knowing the names of and general locations of most countries is important. > > Knowing the exact details or being able to pick countries out of an unmarked map is trivia. Knowing, for instance, that Honduras is north of Nicaragua and south of Honduras is trivia. Knowing that it is in Central America is where I’d put the cutoff of OK vs. Ignorant. > > One should understand their local geography, streets, north and south, nearby towns, cities, parks, etc. Beyond your local area, a general idea of locations, along with the ability to read a map gets you what you need. Eh, I think that’s a decent enough level of understanding… **Indygrrl** , there’s a book called [Don’t Know Much About Geography](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380713799/ref=pd_sim_b_1/002-4456464-4899264?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155), that is decent, and yeah, there’s no need for poring over maps and memorizing things to learn a little about Geography. It’s kind of like History; people get turned off by all the memorization/preponderance of war junk that they get forced on them at school. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/34 "2006-04-12T23:29:09Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > What do you think is the best way to learn geography? Study maps? I am really very bad with it, but I’d like to learn. I’m just terrible at memorization. As a child, I learned basic USA geography – locations of states, plus the names of the capitals – by repeatedly assembling a puzzle similar to [this one](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000JBLI/104-9333159-3471147) (although mine had an alphabetical list of states, with each state’s name followed by the name of the capital, in the lower right corner of the board). There are also plenty of online “drag and place” maps. [This one](http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/states_experiment_drag-drop_Intermed_State15s_500.html) is for the states, while [this puzzle](http://www.schoolnet.na/games/map/africa.html) (with five difficulty levels) is devoted to Africa. Google can help you locate similar interactive maps for Europe, Asia, Canada, or just about any region of the world. Some of them are obviously geared to children (such as the USA “drag and place” one I selected, with its “Good!” and “Try again!” sound effects), but the information they impart is solid. If you don’t already own a globe or a wall map of the world, buy one (or both) and you’ll be able to look up any unfamiliar country or major city whose name you hear on the news or in general conversation. A world atlas is good for more specialized study – it’s my sister’s standard gift for friends who are getting married or having housewarming parties, as it’s a handy item, but hardly ever associated with festive occasions. If you want more tips, why not start a separate “Best way to learn geography?” thread? Incidentally, I see that _Jeopardy!_ is about to start – that show affords plenty of opportunity to learn basic information, as “World Capitals”, “Countries That Start With _S_”, and similar categories appear with regularity. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/35 "2006-04-13T04:09:37Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > It is not the Geography as ‘map identification’ that is the problem that many non-Americans have with Americans, it is the perceived failure of many Americans to acknowledge the 'Geography as ‘different cultures existing in a particular place’ that is the problem. > > Not that they just can’t find it on a map, but the perception that they just couldn’t care because the only important Country is the US and that other countries and the residents of other countries are interesting only in so far as they are subjects of tourism, but are somehow intrinsically inferior morally, socially, culturally etc. because they are not Americans. > > This does not apply to all Americans, just those who are ignorant of Geography in the round. I lived in Scotland for a while, and I have to say, I don’t think the Scots are any different than the Americans in this regard. When Scots take Ryan Air flights to Eastern European cities for cheap hen and stag parties, they’re on average no more interested in the local culture than your stereotypical American tourist. They’re just looking for cheap beer, cheap hotels, and some cool-looking old stuff in the background. And there’s more than a little feeling that the locals in these cities are “somehow intrinsically inferior morally, socially, culturally, etc. because they’re not Scots.” Not that I’m particularly picking on the Scots and Americans for this; it’s a common attitude among tourists from lots of countries – perhaps especially wealthy, first world countries. Americans may be “perceived” to be the ones who do it the most, but that’s just because people are looking for it. > [@Antinor01](#): > > I think the issue is that it makes americans look ignorant when they don’t know these things. For example, I have had conversations with canadian friends who know every US state and it’s capital. How many americans can say the same with canadian provinces? Having said all the above, I will agree that on average most people around the world know far more about Americans than we know about them. I don’t know _why_ that’s so – maybe it’s a result of our movies and television being exported around the world, or because of the inordinate attention the US receives in a lot of places. (I’m always amazed at how much coverage the US gets in the European press, even for seemingly irrelevant things.) HOWEVER, I think people are too quick to assume that because a non-American knows (or thinks they know) a lot about the US then they must know a lot about the rest of the world as well. In my experience this is usually NOT true. For example, I can’t count how many times I’ve heard Canadians use their knowledge of a few facts about American geography and history as the basis for their supposedly “international” education and outlook. Sorry, that doesn’t work for me any more. Now, if they can speak to me with some knowledge about China’s geography and Brazil’s politics – _then_ I’ll be impressed with their international outlook.\* But those people are as few and far between as their US counterparts. \*Oh, and just knowing about someplace because the US was involved there once and you like to collect examples of American “imperialism” doesn’t count either. For example, in conversations abroad the only time I’ve _ever_ heard Chile mentioned is in regards to Pinochet and the CIA – no one seems to know anything about the country before or after American involvement. An Irish guy once lectured me about the evils the US commited in Vietnam, but he had no idea about the French origins of the war. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/36 "2006-04-13T04:11:44Z")
Oh, and to the person above who asked about how to learn geography: check out [http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/](http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/). Some great games on there. Someone else mentioned it above, but it was buried in a link, and it deserves repeating. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/37 "2006-04-13T09:05:02Z")
> [@Logan 5](#): > > At the risk of sounding like a total prick, I’d have to say the averge person is a dolt. So no, knowing more than local geography isn’t necessary if all you aspire to is going to the mall, the local bar and grocery store and your biggest interest is tending your lawn. And there’s nothing wrong with any of that, if that’s what you want. Actually, I think there’s something wrong with that, and it has already been mentionned by a previous poster. It’s that these people get to vote hence that their completely uninformed opinions, beliefs, or whims get to shape the political landscape and the world in which we live. Besides, some people somehow manage to reach positions of power while maintening a disturbingly high level of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/38 "2006-04-13T09:49:27Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > And I can’t resist the double nitpick - Montserrat (sp) isn’t a country, but a British overseas territory. Damnit! Here I was wondering how I’d been able to miss the existence of a country with as incredibly cool a name as Monsterratt, and it turns out it was just a simple misspelling. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/39 "2006-04-13T10:22:28Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Maybe I’m just getting old, but when I was going through school world geography was part of the lesson plan. Yes, and it was once considered the mark of an educated man that he could tell the time of day from where the shadows fell, without waiting for the church bells to ring. But today both of these seem to me to fall into the area of unneeded trivial knowledge. People can do just fine in their daily life without knowing them. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394/40 "2006-04-13T10:36:08Z")
I’m a geography idiot. It’s one of those things I just simply am not good at. I avoid discussions of geography because, well, I always turn out looking like a buffoon. Until last year, I thought Greenland was part of Europe. I thought Central America belonged with South America. The problem for me is my brain just has a way of arranging things visually that sometimes gets “mis-wired”. I visualize things like the calendar, time in general, and maps, completely incorrectly. I try to keep up with world events, and because I’ve read enough news reports, I know roughly where Israel and Palestine are in relation to each other, but to find either on a map would probably stump me. It was on a flight to Thailand that I discovered that New Zealand is not, as I’d always believed, west of Australia. Strangely, for all of my geography troubles, I am a very good navigator. I very rarely get lost, especially if it’s a place I’ve been at least once before. The same thing that makes finding places on a map difficult for me makes navigation work extremely well for me. I can follow my mental map with little trouble, but I tried to draw my map on paper, it would probably have very little resemblance to reality. My point is simply that just because I can’t find something on a map doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t know anything about it. With me, it’s not an indication of unawareness, and it’s not a sign that I’ve never even looked it up on a map - I’m constantly looking at maps to try and get an awareness of the geographical influences on global issues. But what I end up with is something like a jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces have been connected to four or five other pieces, but haven’t actually been united into one picture yet. So while I might know where Israel and Palestine are in relation to each other, or South Africa and Zimbabwe, or England and Ireland, if you showed me a map of the world and pointed to Ireland, I’d have no idea where Israel was in relation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-geography-is-necessary-to-the-average-person/352394.md?page=3)