# How much has the American flag on the Moon deteriorated?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 13, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128 "2008-05-13T03:04:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/1 "2008-05-13T03:04:01Z")
I assume the Sun shining on the flag has faded it some, but is there any other deterioration?
---
### Author:  [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/2 "2008-05-13T03:08:05Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
I assume the Sun shining on the flag has faded it some, but is there any other deterioration?
[/QUOTE]
I’d assume not - no atmosphere, right?
Joe
---
### Author:  [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/3 "2008-05-13T03:11:47Z")
We’ll just have to go there and find out, won’t we? 🙂
---
### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/4 "2008-05-13T03:17:42Z")
[QUOTE=wheresgeorge04]
I’d assume not - no atmosphere, right?
[/QUOTE]
True, but because of that lack of atmosphere, the surface is more or less constantly bombarded with micrometeorites. I’d imagine after ~40 years there’d have to be some level of wear from this.
---
### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/5 "2008-05-13T03:19:50Z")
Why should the lack of an atmosphere prevent fading caused by the light of the Sun?
---
### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/6 "2008-05-13T03:21:08Z")
You asked for deterioration other than from the Sun’s light.
---
### Author:  [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/7 "2008-05-13T03:22:49Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
Why should the lack of an atmosphere prevent fading caused by the light of the Sun?
[/QUOTE]
Because I believe that sunlight AND exposure to oxygen/nitrogen over a prolonged period is what causes the decomposition of materials such as fabric.
---
### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/8 "2008-05-13T03:29:12Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
You asked for deterioration other than from the Sun’s light.
[/QUOTE]
Here is what I wrote:
> [@A very beautiful human](#):
>
> I assume the Sun shining on the flag has faded it some
Then a response came:
> [@wheresgeorge04](#):
>
> I’d assume not
That reads as a contradiction of the first part on my statement.
---
### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/9 "2008-05-13T03:30:54Z")
[QUOTE=Dragwyr]
Because I believe that sunlight AND exposure to oxygen/nitrogen over a prolonged period is what causes the decomposition of materials such as fabric.
[/QUOTE]
Is this correct?
---
### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/10 "2008-05-13T03:35:22Z")
No, this is what you wrote:
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
I assume the Sun shining on the flag has faded it some, but is there any other deterioration?
[/QUOTE]
Regardless of what you _intended_ to ask, it’s clear your post as written is asking about deterioration besides that due to sunlight, and that the subsequent reply is addressing that.
---
### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/11 "2008-05-13T03:41:45Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
No, this is what you wrote:
Regardless of what you _intended_ to ask, it’s clear your post as written is asking about deterioration besides that due to sunlight, and that the subsequent reply is addressing that.
[/QUOTE]
I know what I wrote and the response was clearly contradicting the first part.
---
### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/12 "2008-05-13T03:45:42Z")
If you say so. But, just for shits, what say we ask the respondent?
---
### Author:  [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/13 "2008-05-13T03:53:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Is this correct?
Atmosphere helps, but no it is not generally correct. The very nature of dyes invariably means that they are susceptible to absorbing photons resulting in various radical electronic states that will easily cleave. The [Norrish](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norrish_reaction) type cleavages are good examples of this. Atmosphere helps, especially oxygen, in that it gives a place for the resulting fragments to go, but eventually a radical will find something else to react with. The end result is that color is gone and the material is deteriorated. No atmosphere is required.
---
### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/14 "2008-05-13T03:54:04Z")
From this ancient thread: [The American flag on the moon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=157602):
[QUOTE=David Simmons]
If the flag still looks like a flag I would be surprised. The moon gets a lot of energetic radiation that is blocked by our atmosphere. However, even with our atmospheric protection, UV fades and deteriorates fabric over time. Imagine what has happened to the fabric of the flag when it has been exposed to the direct radiation from the sun for all of these years.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=The Bad Astronomer]
I agree. The flags were made of nylon, which I believe will disintegrate after a few years of severe UV exposure. When we go back, we may not find the flags at all, just the poles (at least one of which – Apollo 11, from what I have read – was knocked over).
I have also heard the footprints may be gone, due to the lunar regolith (the powdery dust) circulating vertically over many years. I’ll have to dig up my reference for that.
For more about the flag, read [Where No Flag Has Gone Before](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/alsj-usflag.html), which is a very interesting essay about how the flag was used in the Apollo missions.
[/QUOTE]
---
### Author:  [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/15 "2008-05-13T03:54:21Z")
Is there wind on the moon? Strong winds deteriorate flags on Earth faster than anything else.
---
### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/16 "2008-05-13T03:54:57Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
If you say so. But, just for shits, what say we ask the respondent?
[/QUOTE]
As you said, the intent of the writer is irrelevant to what was actually written.
---
### Author:  [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/17 "2008-05-13T04:03:15Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
As you said, the intent of the writer is irrelevant to what was actually written.
[/QUOTE]
Normally I wouldn’t participate in a GQ hijack, but since you’re going along with it, what the hell. Take the following hypothetical:
Poster 1: “I assume A is true, but is B true?”
Poster 2: “I’d assume not.”
You’d interpret Poster 2’s response as saying that A is untrue? Either you parse questions very strangely, or you think that everyone else does.
Is it the parallel structure (“I assume”) that’s throwing you? Even with that, the most obvious interpretation is that it’s a direct response to the question asked (namely, whether or not B is true; Poster 2 is assumes that it is not).
---
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/18 "2008-05-13T04:04:42Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
Is there wind on the moon?
[/QUOTE]
There’s no atmosphere.
---
### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/19 "2008-05-13T04:05:29Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
I assume the Sun shining on the flag has faded it some, but is there any other deterioration?
[/QUOTE]
How much does a mermaid on Neptune deteriorate over time? The only way to find out is to build rockets that leave earth orbit. The leaflets and handwritten literature that people come to my door to discuss suggest that we might know some day if we build a real rocket like a Saturn V with fuel and actual launch facilities. Hollywood with primitive CGI was good for the time but it is likely we could actually land on the moon if a Chinese fortune cookie said that was the right way to go.
---
### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128/20 "2008-05-13T04:07:24Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
There’s no atmosphere.
[/QUOTE]
I disagree. If there was a bar with a beautiful view of the earth and 1/6 the gravity, how could you say there is no atmosphere? Travel guide books would be all over that.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-has-the-american-flag-on-the-moon-deteriorated/449128.md?page=2)