[QUOTE=ultrafilter]
Actually, that’s discretionary income. Disposable income is everything you have left after taxes.
[/QUOTE]
I think “disposable income” was used correctly here, in terms of the common vernacular (and in terms of how the OP used it, which is how it is relevant to the discussion).
In any case, your more appropriate definition means the OP has even more of it than she thought she did, and probably a lot more than most people do!
[QUOTE=Rodgers01]
No offense, but I think you’re waaaay out of touch with what the vast majority of people in this country would consider to be “rich.”
(does the maid do the cooking or do you have a separate cook?), I’d put you darn close to “filthy rich.”
And hey, it’s not an insult. I’m sure you’ve worked really hard and are smart and driven and have made sacrifices and deserve what you have.
[/QUOTE]
I definitely take no offense. This is a message board and I take nothing personal on here. I am here for the education and views of others. Perhaps I am way out of touch. Perhaps becuase I worked hard to get here, I view things differently.
No, the maid does the cleaning and ironing. We have a seperate person cook for us. They actually cook at their house and bring it to us.
Once again, I do not take it as an insult. Perhaps I am out of touch with reality.
[QUOTE=FormerMarineGuy]
I definitely take no offense. This is a message board and I take nothing personal on here. I am here for the education and views of others. Perhaps I am way out of touch. Perhaps becuase I worked hard to get here, I view things differently.
No, the maid does the cleaning and ironing. We have a seperate person cook for us. They actually cook at their house and bring it to us.
Once again, I do not take it as an insult. Perhaps I am out of touch with reality.
[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity, what’s your current line of work?
I actually really love the idea of a poor kid from New Jersey making good for himself – that’s kind of the American Dream in a nutshell, right?
[QUOTE=FormerMarineGuy]
How could this be considered rich?
[/QUOTE]
The fact that you have servants may have something to do with it.
Servants? Wow, now I do feel rich. I never called them servants. I just called them my illegals.
I am in sales (cars at Mercedes). I also got into some investing. My wife is a speech and language pathologist and works with special children.
American Dream in a nutshell, I guess.
To everyone else, once again, I do not take any of this personal. Perhaps it is an eye-opener for me. I never considered myself even close to being rich, maybe because I am surrounded by guys who have millions and millions of dollars, both at work and at home. If you compare things to the median income of everyone in the nation, great, I am rich. Great. If you compare it to my area, no.
My definition of “rich” is anyone that doesn’t have to worry about where the money is coming from to pay all the bills, buy all the groceries, and outfit Junior with proper winter clothes. Anyone who doesn’t have to tell their daughter, “I don’t have the money for that” when she asks for a freaking Happy Meal for lunch. Anyone that can fill their car up with gas any day of the week without having to wait for payday.
Sorry. We just purchased and moved into our first house and it’s totally wiped us out. Don’t know how we’re going to manage Christmas.
My econ friends and I tackled this question over a game of Madden last week. We all come from different backgrounds, and we all have different views of what “rich” is. After a long discussion (prompted by the salaries of NFL athletes), we tried coming up with an objective level of what exactly is rich (or, as we called it wealthy).
I wish I could’ve taped this discussion because we really had some insight, and I pulled some absolutely sick grabs with Marvin Harrison :0 We tried to encompass all the points of rich, particularly the shortfalls as well as with the perceptions, as described by foxy, marineguy, and rodgers, and others. Long story short, we agreed on some set criteria:
After all our discussions, we could only come up with a definition that was based on the bear minimum of wealth: “You have enough assets such that you can derive a minimum income of $100,000 cash from capital investments.”
At this point, banks will be stumbling over themselves to lend you money. There is also no reason for you not to have amazing credit (this was also kind of key, because we all agreed that we would rather spend someone else’s money). The $100k number is better the younger you are. So, a person in his 20’s deriving that kind of cash is more wealthy than someone who is 50. It is also expected that your money will grow as you get older (unless you outspend your growth).
[QUOTE=FormerMarineGuy]
Servants? Wow, now I do feel rich.
[/QUOTE]
If it makes you feel better, I don’t think you’re rich.
I’ll know I’m upper middle class when I can walk into a restaurant and buy a glass of wine without thinking to myself, “WTF? I could have bought an entire bottle of this stuff for what they’re charging.”
I’ll know I’m rich when the only reason I’m inside working on a lovely autumn day like this is because I want to be.
That’s sort of the distinction to me – upper middle class can afford very, very nice stuff and damn the cost, but they walk the same precipice as the rest of us working stiffs. They’re just one pink slip away from potentially losing it.
[QUOTE=Giraffe]
So who is richer, the guy with the huge house and the old TV or the guy in the rented apartment with the giant plasma TV and nice car?
[/QUOTE]
Objectively speaking, and all things being equal, the guy who owns the huge house. The equity valuation alone makes him wealthier. After spending the last couple of months supporting my company’s manufacturing arm, electronics are a hundred times worse than cars in the amazing rapidly depreciating asset department. If you own a house, particularly in a big city, and you do your best to maintain that property, those things alone will raise your equity in the house, and it will be reflected in the market price. The only real discerning factor is the way the house is financed. It’s not enough to know that owning your own home will put one in a much better financial position than not owning, but also knowing how to buy it is equally important.
No, no! NOW, I AM ENJOYING BEING RICH. Let me enjoy this moment, please.
Working 80 hours a week? Jeez.
I consider myself very very comfortable, but certainly not “rich” in monetary terms.
I think one thing that separates the rich from the “less-than-rich”, is that the rich do not need to make the same kind of and as many spending decisions most of us do.
-The rich want a new car, they go out and pick out the model of their choice, without saving up for a downpayment or worrying if they will be able to make the payments.
-They can go out to eat or to a show without wondering if they exceeded their entertainment out budget for the week.
-Their kids can go to private schools and colleges without having to take out loans or a 2d mortgage.
-They don’t have to live in Boofoo Idaho where thay can be rich compared to the locals - they can choose where want to they live.
-And when they are confronted by an inconvenience or want that can be satisfied by spending money, they spend it without figuring what else they might need to give up, or how they will fit it in their budget.
That kind of things.
Of course, a rich person doesn’t have to spend money on cars, private schools, and the like, but they could if they wanted to.
Like many folks observed, many of us can afford quite a few luxuries - provided we are willing to economize in other areas. The main luxury we allowed ourselves was having my wife stay home with our kids, tho she was making more than me at the time. Had she been working these past 15 years I think we’d be pretty wealthy in terms of $ - but I wouldn’t dream of swapping for the quality of life that would have entailed.
[QUOTE=black rabbit]
The fact that you have servants may have something to do with it.
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t get the impression that FormerMarineGuy is talking about having live-in help who work for him exclusively; more that he has a cleaning lady, and someone he’s hired to do the gardening, etc., but that they might work for others as well. Those aren’t servants.
All the rich people I know would certainly think this. You don’t get to be rich by spending indiscriminately.
[QUOTE=Marlitharn]
My definition of “rich” is anyone that doesn’t have to worry about where the money is coming from to pay all the bills, buy all the groceries, and outfit Junior with proper winter clothes. Anyone who doesn’t have to tell their daughter, “I don’t have the money for that” when she asks for a freaking Happy Meal for lunch. Anyone that can fill their car up with gas any day of the week without having to wait for payday.
Sorry. We just purchased and moved into our first house and it’s totally wiped us out. Don’t know how we’re going to manage Christmas.
.
[/QUOTE]
That’s what I call “comfortable”.
*You, * dude, are in a special class I call “house poor”, where you make a good income and live in a nice house, but have to return empties for the deposit $$ just to get enough cash to buy a “Happy Meal”. 
I have several friends in your boat, too. I don’t envy you at all. I’d rather be in my class- small apartment, but a wallet full of cash. No worries mate!
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Thankgawd the rents aren’t so bad. My friends from out of the area can’t believe that I earn what I earn, but still live in a small apartment. I have a friend who is a SECURITY GUARD who owns a house (in NV). Grrrr. But it looks like the bubble is at least getting a slow leak, if not bursting yet. Maybe we’ll both be able to buy something next year, eh?
On the other hand, I just bought a brand-new top of the line Fugitsu laptop with cash, so I’m not hurting. 
[/QUOTE]
You should try living in Berkeley where I am. Oi. Rent hurts my soul.
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
That’s what I call “comfortable”.
*You, * dude, are in a special class I call “house poor”, where you make a good income and live in a nice house, but have to return empties for the deposit $$ just to get enough cash to buy a “Happy Meal”. I have several friends in your boat, too. I don’t envy you at all. I’d rather be in my class- small apartment, but a wallet full of cash. No worries mate!
[/QUOTE]
I’m the opposite of “house poor”.
I live in a small rented studio apartment. I have no car, but I pay bills. However, I have NO debt. I am working on building up a pad of savings, so I don’t have to worry about scheduling bill payments to coincide with paydays or whether cheques will bounce. I’m also taking courses towards a new career.
My best friend, however, makes at least four times what I do. He supports six people, a large house, and a long car-commute doing this, and has at times been stretched to the limit. (At times, he borrowed money from me.)
Then there’re my cousins. They own their house outright, having started with land and a cottage years ago. They expanded it over many years, pay-as-you-go. One of them is retired, the other works as a nurse.
And then there are certain other retired friends of mine. They too own their house outright, having built it themselves (with help). But they grow a lot of their own food, and their house is solar powered and solar-heated, which means they have no utility bills, just municipal taxes and the phone. They do rely on their vehicles, though.
But all of us are tied to a salary or monetary income of some sort.
Who of us are poor? Who are rich? I look at this as, “Who has the most freedom?” The freer you are, the richer you are. Of course, people at the top end who have enough money to just go out and do what they want are the richest.
But at the lower levels, it gets confusing, because we confuse the appearance of being rich with actually being so. Can you actually afford your Stuff, or do you want to look like you can afford it? Can you move on short notice if you need to?
And I’m ignoring the different amounts of effort people must do to support their families. Am I richer than my friend because I live alone and don’t have to support a wife and kids?
[QUOTE=mazinger_z]
Objectively speaking, and all things being equal, the guy who owns the huge house. The equity valuation alone makes him wealthier. After spending the last couple of months supporting my company’s manufacturing arm, electronics are a hundred times worse than cars in the amazing rapidly depreciating asset department. If you own a house, particularly in a big city, and you do your best to maintain that property, those things alone will raise your equity in the house, and it will be reflected in the market price.
[/QUOTE]
I think you’re answering a different question than the one I was trying to ask. DrDeth and I were commiserating about living in an area with sky-high real estate prices, and comparing ourselves to people in other areas who make less money but have big houses. The total worth of each person is not the question, but rather how we perceive how wealthy someone else is (regardless of actual bank balances/paychecks). People in expensive areas tend to look at housing as a standard of wealth for people in that area, while people in cheaper areas tend to look at other things, like cars, electronics, vacations, etc. to judge how well off their neighbors are. I was wondering how people perceive wealth in different areas where the balance is skewed, i.e. if you have a huge house in Tennessee, do you feel richer or poorer than the guy in San Francisco living in a small apartment, but who has a nicer car, television, etc?
[QUOTE=Foxy40]
To me, upper middle class is someone that makes over $250,000 per year. Making six figures in 2006 is not what it was in 1986. It simply isn’t that much to support an average family of four. I’ll admit I am able to afford a nice home in a nice neighborhood, a vacation a year, a cleaning lady once a week and a pool service. Does that mean I am upper middle class? I can not afford to drive a Lexus or fly first class or spend $250 on a bottle of wine. The help I have at home is necessary so I can work the 60 hours a week it takes to make the salary I do.
[/QUOTE]
Then I guess I’m dirt poor by those standards. I own my own house in a very nice neighborhood and a couple of vehicles. I can pay any reoccurring bill immediately if I choose, although I take advantage of the credit card float. We can take a vacation once a year with no problems. A cleaning lady, a pool, and a Lexus are a waste of money for me. While flying first class would be nice, as long as the back of the plane arrives at the same time as the front of the plane I’m happy. Of course I don’t know the cost of living where you live. Making $250,000 a year would be wonderful, but federal law prevents me from making anywhere near that in my job.
Then again, by world standards as others mentioned, I’m rich. But if you ask me, I would prefer to be wealthy.
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
That’s what I call “comfortable”.
*You, * dude, are in a special class I call “house poor”, where you make a good income and live in a nice house, but have to return empties for the deposit $$ just to get enough cash to buy a “Happy Meal”. I have several friends in your boat, too. I don’t envy you at all. I’d rather be in my class- small apartment, but a wallet full of cash. No worries mate!
[/QUOTE]
Okay, I’ll buy “comfortable.” My husband and I have spent the 9 years we’ve been together working our way up from “abject poverty” to “comfortable”, from a combined income of about 25k a year to 48k (for a family of four); and we’re regarded as having good jobs.
I wouldn’t call us house poor, though. We were careful to choose a house that was within our income, and ended up with a very nice 3 bedroom/1 bath deal in a quiet, slightly raggedy but still nice neighborhood (other than the weirdos down the street who’ve dressed their concrete lawn geese in Dracula costumes - I can’t wait to see what they do for Christmas) for $56,500. Our house payment is four bucks more than our rent used to be, and here I don’t have a jerk of a landlord who stomps his feet and screams and swears on my back deck because rocks have been moved in the yard. I swear I’m not making that up.
sigh This too shall pass. Moving expenses kicked our asses, and I hate being broke all the time.