# How much is a million sesterces in 2015 dollars? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 9, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632 "2015-07-09T02:13:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/21 "2015-07-10T17:46:06Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > 1 horse = 10,000 **asses** > 1 sesterius = 4 **asses** What? Edit: Oh, I got it. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/22 "2015-07-10T18:00:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But not helpful. And here’s the thing-\* wrong\*. Altho our figures may vary by quite a bit, they will all come to “a lot of money, a rich person with quite a bit of land”. They will not come out with the answer “homeless with 23 cents and have a pint of muscatel” or 'cucumber". ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/23 "2015-07-10T22:19:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If we assume that an ancient horse is pretty equivalent to a modern day car I dunno, the average car gets well over a hundred horsepower. I think we can all agree that any reasonable calculation of the value of a sestertius in Ancient Rome needs to take into account the peak power generation of the internal combustion engine. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/24 "2015-07-11T08:11:21Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > The Roman Republic existed from 509 BC to 27 BC. Is that the period you’re talking about? If you’re actually talking about the empire later, then please clarify. > > Augustus ruled after the Roman Republic ended. So these values are useless if the OP was indeed talking about the Republic. > > Pliny the Younger didn’t live during the Roman Republic, rather he lived between 61 AD and 113 AD. The Republic was never formally abolished even upto the time the Turkish cannon were bombarding Constantinople. Augustus was merely a special magistrate in the eyes of the law and the Senate did retain some significant influence through the Principate. > [@](#): > > The Sestertius of the Roman Republic indeed contained some silver. The later sestertii were bronze and brass containing no silver. We need some clarification about the time period about which the OP refers. Most of the debasing occurred during he crises of the Third Century. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/25 "2015-07-11T12:39:19Z")
The post by \*\*Hellestal \*\* is accurate. I’d add that the entire concept of the “value of money” is radically different in a society where landholding was viewed as more important than financial wealth, slaves did so much of the work that you would pay a person a daily wage for in later periods, and barter was still a major part of economic life. That’s the main reason why historians are always hesitant to say “10 sesterces = 100 dollars in 2015” – it’s not just about converting it to another unit, it’s about the fact that what you actually do with money isn’t anywhere close across the two periods. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/26 "2015-07-11T16:40:23Z")
Huh…all this time, I thought six was lime green. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/27 "2015-07-11T21:04:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If we assume that an ancient horse is pretty equivalent to a modern day car then: > > 1 horse = 10,000 asses > 1 sesterius = 4 asses > 1 horse = 2,500 sesterces > > [The Monetary History Of The Roman Republic | Armstrong Economics](http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/research/monetary-history-of-the-world/roman-empire/the-monetary-history-of-the-roman-republic) > > If, in modern day, a car is valued at about $25,000, then sesterces are 10x the value of a dollar. 1 million sesterces would be about $10 million. Nonsense. A Lexus has 483 horses, and costs $40K. Generously rounding that down to 400 horses quite neatly makes $40,000 equivalent to one million sesterces. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/28 "2015-07-11T22:27:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It has to be a million sesterces’ worth of land – farmland, that is – so how much in acres/hectares? Value of farmland, of course, varies significantly, but let’s take a look at Iowa. The average price for an [acre of farmland statewide in 2014 was $7,943.](https://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/wholefarm/html/c2-70.html) The average farm is about [337 acres](http://www.nass.usda.gov/Quick_Stats/Ag_Overview/stateOverview.php?state=IOWA). So your average farmer in Iowa is running approximately $2.7 million worth of land. However, the majority of cropland is comprised of farms of [1,100 acres or more](http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/1156726/err152.pdf), so let’s use that as the qualifying line. By that measure, your average Senate farmer would need $8.7 million in assets. [QUOTE=DrDeth] Today the Top 1% is just about $800K, but the top .1% is $27 Million. Most of that is stocks, bonds, etc, so let us say $5MM in investment land. [/Quote] The top 1.7% of farms are larger than 2,000 acres. Now you’re talking \>$15 million. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/29 "2015-07-12T14:13:15Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > There is no real answer to this question. > > It’s like asking how blue the number six is. The answer is none…none more blue. ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/30 "2015-07-12T20:47:23Z")
If the Romans valued some stretch of land as so many thousands of sesterces, would that have included the slaves who worked it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/31 "2015-07-30T14:08:12Z")
It is worth noting that [Edward Gibbon](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/890/890-h/890-h.htm) does not hesitate to express Roman money amounts in pounds: > [@](#): > > The reformation of the senate was one of the first steps in which Augustus laid aside the tyrant, and professed himself the father of his country. He was elected censor; and, in concert with his faithful Agrippa, he examined the list of the senators, expelled a few members, whose vices or whose obstinacy required a public example, persuaded near two hundred to prevent the shame of an expulsion by a voluntary retreat, **raised the qualification of a senator to about ten thousand pounds,** created a sufficient number of patrician families, and accepted for himself the honorable title of Prince of the Senate, which had always been bestowed, by the censors, on the citizen the most eminent for his honors and services. But whilst he thus restored the dignity, he destroyed the independence, of the senate. The principles of a free constitution are irrecoverably lost, when the legislative power is nominated by the executive. > [@](#): > > The finances of the state demanded the most vigilant care of the emperor. Though every measure of injustice and extortion had been adopted, which could collect the property of the subject into the coffers of the prince, the rapaciousness of Commodus had been so very inadequate to his extravagance, that, upon his death, **no more than eight thousand pounds were found in the exhausted treasury,** to defray the current expenses of government, and to discharge the pressing demand of a liberal donative, which the new emperor had been obliged to promise to the Prætorian guards. > [@](#): > > The Prætorians had violated the sanctity of the throne by the atrocious murder of Pertinax; they dishonored the majesty of it by their subsequent conduct. The camp was without a leader, for even the præfect Lætus, who had excited the tempest, prudently declined the public indignation. Amidst the wild disorder, Sulpicianus, the emperor’s father-in-law, and governor of the city, who had been sent to the camp on the first alarm of mutiny, was endeavoring to calm the fury of the multitude, when he was silenced by the clamorous return of the murderers, bearing on a lance the head of Pertinax. Though history has accustomed us to observe every principle and every passion yielding to the imperious dictates of ambition, it is scarcely credible that, in these moments of horror, Sulpicianus should have aspired to ascend a throne polluted with the recent blood of so near a relation and so excellent a prince. He had already begun to use the only effectual argument, and to treat for the Imperial dignity; but the more prudent of the Prætorians, apprehensive that, in this private contract, they should not obtain a just price for so valuable a commodity, ran out upon the ramparts; and, with a loud voice, proclaimed that the Roman world was to be disposed of to the best bidder by public auction. > > This infamous offer, the most insolent excess of military license, diffused a universal grief, shame, and indignation throughout the city. It reached at length the ears of Didius Julianus, a wealthy senator, who, regardless of the public calamities, was indulging himself in the luxury of the table. His wife and his daughter, his freedmen and his parasites, easily convinced him that he deserved the throne, and earnestly conjured him to embrace so fortunate an opportunity. The vain old man hastened to the Prætorian camp, where Sulpicianus was still in treaty with the guards, and began to bid against him from the foot of the rampart. The unworthy negotiation was transacted by faithful emissaries, who passed alternately from one candidate to the other, and acquainted each of them with the offers of his rival. **Sulpicianus had already promised a donative of five thousand drachms (above one hundred and sixty pounds) to each soldier; when Julian, eager for the prize, rose at once to the sum of six thousand two hundred and fifty drachms, or upwards of two hundred pounds sterling.** The gates of the camp were instantly thrown open to the purchaser; he was declared emperor, and received an oath of allegiance from the soldiers, who retained humanity enough to stipulate that he should pardon and forget the competition of Sulpicianus. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/32 "2015-07-30T15:37:58Z")
I think that there is one thing that has remained constant over all the centuries, and that is the man hour. To compare the value of anything with today, you can simply (well reasonably easily) work out how many hours it would take a labourer to earn enough to buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/33 "2015-07-30T15:39:15Z")
Those haven’t remained constant at all. The value of the man hour was artificially depressed in societies that permitted slavery, and is “naturally” depressed in industrialized societies. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/34 "2015-07-30T15:44:48Z")
So, how many quatloos would that be? ---
**Author:** ![FasterThanMeerkats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@FasterThanMeerkats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FasterThanMeerkats)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/35 "2015-07-30T16:07:33Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > There is no real answer to this question. > > It’s like asking how blue the number six is. Respectfully disagree. It is true that there is no precise single point answer, but we can certainly create ranges of reasonableness and probability that can be used for practical application and are more useful than “0 to infinity” or “I dunno” or “how blue is six”. Rocket scientists and nuclear engineers and meteorologists do it all the time. Just doing some work to identify and rule out ridiculous answers increases our knowledge. And while the past was vastly different, it is not difficult to imagine the ability to accumulate wealth across different social stratas was not completely different from today, and as others have pointed out, the relative value between asset classes is not a horrible starting point either. You can always widen the ranges for uncertainty and it’s still a better answer than throwing up your hands. There are likely there are records of asset and land transactions from that time from merchants since those exist for other cultures that are even older. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/36 "2015-07-30T22:29:46Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I think that there is one thing that has remained constant over all the centuries, and that is the man hour. To compare the value of anything with today, you can simply (well reasonably easily) work out how many hours it would take a labourer to earn enough to buy it. As has been mentioned up-thread, you are comparing ubiquitous slave labor production, to contemporary earning. And there’s so much more: we have insured banks and expect some oversight over investments – they had none. They thought nothing of owning a massive silver or gold plate, and then shaving it off to make some spending money. I don’t own any wedding silverware, but there are many reasons I wouldn’t do that. I have a secure job as an analytical chemist for a production facility, my distant ancestor, Marcus Quintus Arkonicus has no ability nor opportunity to earn money in any analogous way. Even if he’s a widely respected Natural Historian on a level of Pliny the Younger, there’s no position for him with the job security that I have. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/37 "2015-07-31T14:47:51Z")
> [@FasterThanMeerkats](#): > > Respectfully disagree. It is true that there is no precise single point answer, but we can certainly create ranges of reasonableness and probability that can be used for practical application and are more useful than “0 to infinity” or “I dunno” or “how blue is six”. Rocket scientists and nuclear engineers and meteorologists do it all the time. Just doing some work to identify and rule out ridiculous answers increases our knowledge. That doesn’t engage the substance of what I was saying. This is not physics. This is not a one-dimensional problem. It’s not about getting more “precision” than an interval from 0 to infinity. Even if we “narrowed the interval” along some pseudo-reasonable range, such an confidence interval would still exist along a line, and that _presupposes_ a single axis on which the answer can be given. But that single axis is meaningless. The underlying point is that any attempt to give an answer – even a window of values – is a fundamental mis-statement of the issue because this is not a one-dimensional problem. Mathematically, we could compare to multiplication with a singular matrix in linear algebra. Such a multiplication collapses down the dimensions of what’s being multiplied. That’s why singular matrices don’t have inverses. You can’t reverse the process of the multiplication, because some of the dimensions are _permanently collapsed_ and that means the information is permanently lost and can never be recovered. It’s _inherently_ a one-way process. We can try to restate this same idea more visually, with a completely made-up picture. A currency represents a set of interrelationships across more than one axis. ```auto A----B / \ / \ / \/ \ F----/\----C \ / \ / \/ \/ E----D ``` Everything relates to everything else. That’s what a price system is. It’s not a single number on a single axis, but a set of interrelationships based on the underlying conditions of the economy it represents. We can’t choose a single relationship, like the one between A and B, and use the “relative value” as a starting point for any analysis. The geometry is wrong. ```auto Q----C / \ / \ Z----J H---F / / A----B / \ / \ P M----T \ \ D ``` By attempting to preserve the relationship between A and B over time to use as some sort of arbitrary standard, _we have distorted every other relationship_. We have collapsed every other dimension of the analysis, and thus lost all of that information. There is no range of values, not even a broad window like 0 from infinity, that makes this work. Again: this is like asking what color the number six is. After the extra dimensions get squeezed out, they cannot be recovered. This is not a one-dimensional problem, and it cannot be reduced to one and retain any objective meaning. By setting up an apparent equation between any two things, by looking for some “relative value” as you put it, you are not creating information. You are destroying it. You are papering over very real differences with a faux exchange rate that provides nothing more than a false illusion of objectivity. The entire reason why money works in a single time period is that our internal notions of this strange geometry are so intuitively understood that we don’t even have to consciously consider them. The people who don’t notice this are like fish who don’t notice water. It’s the whole environment, the background in which everything else is embedded. **Saintly Loser** had exactly the right approach to the problem, which was to rephrase the question. It would be interesting to know what percentage of Romans possessed enough valuable stuffs to qualify as a Senator. Other compelling questions could also be asked: It would be interesting to see an estimate of inequality with a rough construction of the gini coefficient. It would be interesting to know what percentage of people worked for wages, and what minimum wage level was sufficient to keep them alive (with and without the dole). It would be interesting to know what percentage of “spending” was done by the government, both during peacetime and during war. But these are all different questions. They’re sharper and more concrete. Trying to answer these questions can also collapse the other dimensions, but in this case that’s perfectly okay because the questions are interesting in themselves. Equating one kind of money with another doesn’t do that, because money isn’t interesting in itself. To compare two moneys is to collapse all the other dimensions without providing any particular insight into even a single concrete question. It’s a blue six. It’s too subjective (or alternatively, too incoherent) to be generally meaningful. There are plenty of meaningful comparisons to be made between present and past. But there is still no exchange rate between the dollar and the sesterces. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/38 "2015-07-31T17:14:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > (and it had to be in the form of a million sesterces worth of land; trade was un-Senatorial). The restrictions on trade were laughably easy to get around. Get a third party to trade for you then buy land with the money made. The richest man in Rome, and a Senator and Consul, Marcus Licinius Crassus made his fortune from real estate speculation, which is certainly a form of trade. One of his tricks: “When buildings were burning, Crassus and his purposely-trained crew would show up, and Crassus would offer to purchase the presumably doomed property and perhaps neighboring endangered properties from their owners for speculatively low sums; if the purchase offer was accepted, Crassus would then use his army of some 500 slaves which he purchased due to their knowledge of architecture and building to put the fire out, sometimes before too much damage had been done: otherwise Crassus would use his crews to rebuild. If his purchase offers were not accepted, then Crassus would not engage in firefighting.” > **[Marcus Licinius Crassus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Licinius_Crassus)** > > Marcus Licinius Crassus (/ˈkræsəs/; 115 – 53 BC) was a Roman general and statesman who played a key role in the transformation of the Roman Republic into the Roman Empire. He is often called "the richest man in Rome". > Crassus began his public career as a military commander under Lucius Cornelius Sulla during his civil war. Following Sulla's assumption of the dictatorship, Crassus amassed an enormous fortune through property speculation. Crassus rose to political prominence following his victor... ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/39 "2015-07-31T17:18:30Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > That doesn’t engage the substance of what I was saying. > There are plenty of meaningful comparisons to be made between present and past. But there is still no exchange rate between the dollar and the sesterces. And there is no real exchange rate between the current dollar and the 1900’s dollar, either.:rolleyes: The answer to “How many Americans died in WWII” also can’t be answered- exactly. But people are happy with close numbers. Saying the answer is “blue” is worse than useless. But the point is, your “answer” _wasn’t._ It wasn’t a answer or helpful. Obviously there’s no exact or even precise answer to the OP, but we can come close by approaching it from several attacks. ---
**Author:** ![FasterThanMeerkats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@FasterThanMeerkats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FasterThanMeerkats)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632/40 "2015-07-31T18:15:13Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > That doesn’t engage the substance of what I was saying. > … Ok, FTR, I did read your entire post and really appreciate the thought you put into it. I guess I feel the approaches that you proposed by rephrasing questions still provide ways to triangulate reasonable answers. Saying that this question is unanswerable almost seems to in a sideways manner state that any attempt to analyze the past in relation to the present is completely futile, which also doesn’t feel right. Even questions like “what % of individuals could do X” or “how much was spent on war vs. peace” are meaningless and unanswerable (or at least the answers are incomprehensible) if we accept that the entire historic economic system is completely alien to the present. Furthermore, if we can answer the question of what is the current value of XX amount of Italian currency from 5, 10, 20, 30, 100, 200 years ago, at what point does the question become unanswerable? That said, it’s very possible the probabilistic range of answers to the OP’s question is so large as to not be very helpful. In that sense, maybe we are just saying the same thing in different words. Again, very appreciative of the thoughtful response. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-million-sesterces-in-2015-dollars/724632.md?page=3)