# How much is a musician's success dependent on his/her looks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 4, 2006, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295 "2006-08-04T06:41:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/41 "2006-08-05T21:12:11Z")
I was thinking about this just a few days ago, as I was watching an old _John Denver_ DVD. I kept thinking, “This guy is by no means homely, but his success sure wasn’t dependent on his good looks.” And when it came to Linda Rondstadt and Olivia Newton-John, I couldn’t help but think,“These ladies had beauty to spare, but they sure didn’t need it.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/42 "2006-08-05T21:34:31Z")
[QUOTE=Kozmik] Even more so with the era of _American Idol_. [/QUOTE] But most of the American Idol winners haven’t been particularly good looking. Just a few months ago the winner was a grey-haired guy of average looks at best, who in the final beat out an insanely beautiful woman to win the million bucks. Ruben Studdard was preposterously, almost gravitationally fat; Kelly Clarkson is pretty ordinary looking and doesn’t have a great body, and Fantasia Barrino is sort of weird looking. Only Carrie Underwood was a classic Hollywood-looks type. In fact, I’m always amazed at how the American Idol finalists AREN’T a bunch of good looking twits, at least since Season 2. This year they had a guy who looked like a 12-year-old AV nerd, the grey haired guy, a guy with bad teeth who people cheered for in part because he WAS ugly, an ugly redneck-looking guy with teeth as yellow as a yeild sign, and a great big fat lady. These were some of the finalists, mind you. I think it’s definitely true that for WOMEN, looks count; it’s not a dealbreaker because you can either spruce a plain woman up (e.g. Kelly Clarkson) or find a niche look for a plain woman (Avril Lavigne) but most women in the charts are either very good looking or have been successfully marketed as such. For MEN, I’m shocked anyone would think it’s that big a deal. Looks count in the sense that you need to fulfill a certain role but there’s lots of room for ugly dudes. Not so much for genuinely ugly women. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/43 "2006-08-05T23:56:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Tom Waits would have never gone as far as he did if he werent’ such a pretty boy. [/QUOTE] :dubious: What you talkin’ bout, Willis? > [@](#): > > I think that when the music reaches a certain quality level, looks don’t matter at all. Bob Dylan is one homely dude. I think he was best looking around the time he went electric, which I believe is also when he was most successful (Highway 61 Revisited). ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/44 "2006-08-06T00:25:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Same with Lyle Lovett. The chick dig him. [/QUOTE] Remember George Costanza’s take on Lovett’s appeal? “Of course girls like him. Tall fella, good head of hair…” ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/45 "2006-08-06T00:31:14Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I think it’s definitely true that for WOMEN, looks count; it’s not a dealbreaker because you can either spruce a plain woman up (e.g. Kelly Clarkson) or find a niche look for a plain woman (Avril Lavigne) but most women in the charts are either very good looking or have been successfully marketed as such. For MEN, I’m shocked anyone would think it’s that big a deal. Looks count in the sense that you need to fulfill a certain role but there’s lots of room for ugly dudes. Not so much for genuinely ugly women. [/QUOTE] Now see, I think Kelly Clarkson is stunning. However, I’ll admit that a lot of that may have to do with her smile and her personality - she comes across as a beautiful person, and so I see her that way. I think it’s amazing what a _genuine_ smile can do for a person’s looks. But I also have tastes that deviate from the norm; while I can recognize that Jessica Simpson is a “classic American beauty”, I don’t find her at all attractive. Since you mentioned Avril Lavigne, I thought I should mention Pink. She’s not all that naturally attractive, but I think she’s got talent out the wazoo. But she does a great job, I think, of selling her “alternative” look by poking fun at the stereotype of what a female singer should look like. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/46 "2006-08-06T02:43:04Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] I’d hate to think what the great Ella Fitzgerald would face today, since she was a heavy woman and not pretty or hot by anyone’s standards. [/QUOTE] From what jazz fans have told me, she faced it back then, as well. Promoters didn’t want to use Ella Fitzgerald. Fortunately, bandleaders and performers with enough clout to work with whomever they wanted, wanted to work with her. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/47 "2006-08-06T07:28:36Z")
Queen - watching a video of Bohemian Rhapsody (which I remember to be state of the art at the time with the faces swirling around) with my 17 year old. She’d heard the song somewhere and wanted to hear it again. Wow she said, they’re all so ugly and wierd looking. Well, my dear - in those days you had to be good at playing music not cute I replied. Just to think they would have got nowhere these days and we’d never had had “Fat Bottomed Girls!” Hmmmmmmm ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/48 "2006-08-06T14:57:39Z")
Can you imagine Rush trying to get started today? ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Seller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Salt\_Seller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salt_Seller)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/49 "2006-08-06T15:42:04Z")
Conversely, though, would anybody think of Tom Waits the way they do if he looked like Justin Timberlake? I saw him the other night, and he _has_ to look like that for it to be believable. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/50 "2006-08-06T19:02:27Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] From what jazz fans have told me, she faced it back then, as well. Promoters didn’t want to use Ella Fitzgerald. Fortunately, bandleaders and performers with enough clout to work with whomever they wanted, wanted to work with her. [/QUOTE] I think [Bettye LeVette](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AMJDG0/ref=sr_11_1/103-5514332-3498232?ie=UTF8) is currently re-living the experience. God what an awesome voice! And llooks-wise–God what an awesome voice! ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/51 "2006-08-07T23:13:55Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] In fact, I’m always amazed at how the American Idol finalists AREN’T a bunch of good looking twits, at least since Season 2. This year they had a guy who looked like a 12-year-old AV nerd, the grey haired guy, a guy with bad teeth who people cheered for in part because he WAS ugly, an ugly redneck-looking guy with teeth as yellow as a yeild sign, and a great big fat lady. [/QUOTE] I think part of the reason for this can be explained by the backlash recieved by Simon. Remember that Simon has a major influence in deciding the finalists (and, to some extent, the winner). The man got his share of “boos” when he hinted that some of the contestants were fat. What influence do you think the producer has in deciding who is the next “American Idol”, the next multiplatinum artist? Do we influence the producers’ decision or does the producer influence our decision? To what extent? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/52 "2006-08-08T13:06:41Z")
[QUOTE=Krokodil] Actually, all the people I listed are/were considered very good-looking, well into middle age. That paragraph of my post was specifically about recording artists with “terrific looks and a lasting, distinguished career”, in contrast with cute-but-untalented flavors of the month, or fugly-but talented artists with long careers. Sorry if I was unclear. Lena Horne was, of course, one of the last century’s great beauties and great talents. [/QUOTE] Oh, gotcha! I am a huge fan of Springsteen but don’t consider him great-looking, so I was confused by the list! > [@Sam Stone](#): > > I think that when the music reaches a certain quality level, looks don’t matter at all. Bob Dylan is one homely dude. But footage of the young Bob Dylan, in things like **Don’t Look Back** , shows him as pretty darn cute. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/53 "2006-08-08T19:07:21Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] Oh, gotcha! I am a huge fan of Springsteen but don’t consider him great-looking, so I was confused by the list! But footage of the young Bob Dylan, in things like **Don’t Look Back** , shows him as pretty darn cute. [/QUOTE] Young Dylan and young Springsteen look pretty similar to me. Odd that you’d find one really attractive and one not. Springsteen may not be male-model handsome, but there’s not a guy alive who’d mind looking like **Born in the USA** -era Bruce. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295/54 "2006-08-09T14:16:17Z")
[QUOTE=Krokodil] Young Dylan and young Springsteen look pretty similar to me. Odd that you’d find one really attractive and one not. Springsteen may not be male-model handsome, but there’s not a guy alive who’d mind looking like **Born in the USA** -era Bruce. [/QUOTE] I find him attractive but not in any conventional way! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-is-a-musicians-success-dependent-on-his-her-looks/367295.md?page=2)