# How much materialism is needed to operate in society? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 3, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552 "2012-09-03T17:13:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/1 "2012-09-03T17:13:10Z")
What made me think of this is right now it is back to school time and parents are busting their wallets buying the right shoes and backpacks etc simply so their children won’t be at the bottom of the social hierarchy. The correct brands change every few months, requiring new purchases so children won’t be tortured. Holy shit you’re still wearing Air Jordans? Soooo last semester, your parents must be poor! I’ve seen a little girl cry because she didn’t have the right brand of back pack and she knew she was going to be ostracized in school for it. You know it is easy to laugh at all this and say it doesn’t matter, but the truth is it does matter. I didn’t care about this shit, and it did hurt me socially badly. Aside from a few subcultures where anti-materialism is admired, so there it is basically the same situation just reversed(and even then there are standards to it). Even adults engage in this, I remember reading about an actor who lived far below his means and people called him a weirdo and crazy. Fact is there is a certain amount of spending and materialism you must engage in or you will face social consequences. I’m not even convinced the way to improve your lot in life isn’t to socialize with the right people and the right circles, I think it absolutely is. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/2 "2012-09-03T17:31:40Z")
To expand on my post, consider a worker at a company who is not materialistic at all. They wear cheap clothing, refuse to spend money excessively in bars and eating out, and have functional and untrendy cell phones etc. You’re going to get labeled a weirdo pretty fast, co workers will comment on your clothes and cell phone, you’ll not only be an object of ridicule you’ll also find people want to avoid you afraid of others ridiculing them. Since you’re not going to waste money in bars and restaurants you miss out on the outings where social bonds are formed between co workers, once again you are that weird guy who no one likes. It isn’t hard to guess who not only isn’t going to be promoted or make connections, but also who will be hated and fired at the nearest chance. Shit I’ve had people ask me if I’m not embarassed at not having a trendy phone, there is literally something embarassing in not having the right brand. ---
**Author:** ![Bohomite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@Bohomite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bohomite)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/3 "2012-09-03T17:44:41Z")
I get what you mean. A classmate has been ridiculed excessively due to the fact that he still uses a Nokia 3310 (phone pre-2010, without _even_ a camera, gasp!). That gave me pause - I mean, a phone is a phone. It’s used for communication, so essentially, if it can call and text, there shouldn’t be a problem. I’d agree that some degree of materialism is (_not_ required) EXPECTED now. I also kind of blame technology for this - for example, my nephew (who is 12) went on for ages about how he was the only kid in his class without a blackberry or iphone. If we stopped making technology more and more detailed or stopped giving surplus, un-needed bonuses to things _like_ communication devices, there wouldn’t be as much commotion around them. Entertainment doesn’t help either. Think of the television shows and movies adolescents’ are watching today. The ones geared toward young women all mention one activity as being important: shopping. _Gossip Girl_ is a prime example - I mean, there were girls in my senior year of high school who just _had_ to have that knock-off Gucci handbag. I didn’t have one (regular ole’ backpack) and they all took the piss. Sorry to go on a rant, but my mother is another example. She runs a business, and one day, an employee (my cousin; it’s a family business) came in wearing business attire, but noticeably _cheap_ business attire. My mother sent her home, complaining that the clients my cousin was meeting with wouldn’t be overly impressed with her $10 blouse. EDIT: Sorry, just realized I haven’t really answered your question at all, but merely provided examples. I’ll think about it and re-post :). ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/4 "2012-09-03T18:27:30Z")
Meh. I’ve never cared about this stuff at all during my life, and I’ve never really run into anyone who cared that I didn’t care. I have the cheapest cell phone available right now, and have done for pretty much ever, and I’ve never had a comment. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/5 "2012-09-03T18:40:02Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Meh. I’ve never cared about this stuff at all during my life, and I’ve never really run into anyone who cared that I didn’t care. I have the cheapest cell phone available right now, and have done for pretty much ever, and I’ve never had a comment. It varies between cultures and subcultures, like I said in some the path to social success was a kind of anti-materialism in a specific manner though. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/6 "2012-09-03T18:51:13Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Meh. I’ve never cared about this stuff at all during my life, and I’ve never really run into anyone who cared that I didn’t care. I have the cheapest cell phone available right now, and have done for pretty much ever, and I’ve never had a comment. Exactly. The people who really give a shit that you don’t have the latest designer duds and a cool cell phone are in the minority. Jesus, what kid ever made fun of another kid because their _backpack_ was the wrong brand? I can’t even imagine such a thing happening. ---
**Author:** ![cynyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@cynyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynyc)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/7 "2012-09-03T19:43:57Z")
None. It was like that once upon a time before the Europeans went nuts in the 16-17th centuries. Capitalism and imperialism destroyed a good thing. So it goes. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/8 "2012-09-03T20:03:58Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Exactly. The people who really give a shit that you don’t have the latest designer duds and a cool cell phone are in the minority. Jesus, what kid ever made fun of another kid because their _backpack_ was the wrong brand? I can’t even imagine such a thing happening. Huh well I guess we come from different planets then. I mean don’t get me wrong, I am a social dunce and don’t personally care about materialism at all, but I have absolutely been scorned for that and ridiculed my whole life. In elementary and middle school I was ridiculed constantly for my off brand back pack, for my leather black boots, for bringing a lunch from home all of which are the mark of the loser. This changed in high school just because I started hanging with crowds where there were different standards, like geeks and druggies. I’ve heard adult office workers complain that bringing lunch from home rather than buying from a fashionable take out place opens them up to ridicule in the office. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/9 "2012-09-03T20:12:25Z")
> [@grude](#): > > What made me think of this is right now it is back to school time and parents are busting their wallets buying the right shoes and backpacks etc simply so their children won’t be at the bottom of the social hierarchy. > > The correct brands change every few months, requiring new purchases so children won’t be tortured. Holy shit you’re still wearing Air Jordans? Soooo last semester, your parents must be poor! I’ve seen a little girl cry because she didn’t have the right brand of back pack and she knew she was going to be ostracized in school for it. Seriously, where do you live? Midtown Manhattan? Even in the wealthiest communities in the United States, “correct brands” don’t change every few months. I actually found that fashion trends seemed to cycle much faster in predominantly minority inner-city neighborhoods. Outside of the 'hood, the time that a brand may be popular varies wildly. Hollister and Abercombie have been popular among the high school and undergrad crowd for about 15 years now. I’ve been seeing “PINK” emblazoned on the asses of high school and college students for nearly a decade. Black North Face fleece jackets have been riding high for about five years now. Nike has been popular since I was in _elementary school_ in the 1970s. Ostracized for the wrong brand of backpack? The only way I could imagine that happening if it’s a very wealthy school district, and it’s a visibly identifiable Walmart or dollar store house brand. “What flea market did you find your No Boundaries backpack at? Did your mom pack some Ol’ Roy for your lunch too?” People might joke about how friends with “dumb” cell phones are “luddites”, but are they being actively shunned? FWIW, I see far more people brag about their “dumb” phones than those with the latest iPhones and large-screen Android devices. “Why do I need any of that stuff?” Cite: nearly every thread about cell phones on the SDMB. I’m not denying that some people can be assholes about the brands people wear. It’s just that it’s not nearly as perry as you claim it is. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/10 "2012-09-03T20:20:22Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I mean don’t get me wrong, I am a social dunce and don’t personally care about materialism at all, but I have absolutely been scorned for that and ridiculed my whole life. > > In elementary and middle school I was ridiculed constantly for my off brand back pack, for my leather black boots, for bringing a lunch from home all of which are the mark of the loser. This changed in high school just because I started hanging with crowds where there were different standards, like geeks and druggies. My guess is that you were scorned for being a social dunce. Off-brand clothing was icing on the cake, reinforcing their belief that you just didn’t have a clue. If a more socially adept student was wearing … oh, Brooks sneakers, and carrying a backpack that wasn’t from Jansport or High Sierra, it probably wouldn’t have made them an outcast. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/11 "2012-09-03T20:23:04Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > My guess is that you were scorned for being a social dunce. Off-brand clothing only reinforced it. If a more socially adept student was wearing Brooks sneakers and a backpack that isn’t from Jansport or High Sierra, it probably wouldn’t have made them an outcast. Nah it was pretty universal, I had seen many others ridiculed over it. Especially the brown bag lunches, kids would just buy a drink rather than let it be known they brought lunch from home. EDIT:For the limits of insanity my teen nephew and his friends care what STORE they purchase their brand names from, some stores are too cheap and therefore verboten. They post pics of the goods on facebook along with the receipt in the pic to prove they bought from the socially correct store for a high price. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/12 "2012-09-03T20:50:17Z")
I have a six-figure income, own my home and by all measures have achieved great financial and social success. Nobody in my life gives a shit that I get my pants at Wally-world and wear my socks until they grow holes. I _do_ have an iPhone, though. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/13 "2012-09-03T21:34:52Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Nah it was pretty universal, I had seen many others ridiculed over it. Especially the brown bag lunches, kids would just buy a drink rather than let it be known they brought lunch from home. [From a teacher on a parenting site](http://www.mamapedia.com/article/question-for-middle-school-parents). Parenting sites are drama-filled, I know, but it’s the only cite I could find. > [@](#): > > LUNCHES - absolutely, positively no lunchboxes. Even if your child thinks she wants one, she will very quickly realize that it’s a social no-no. Brown bag lunches are good…but don’t write her name on it and don’t write a “Have a good day! Love, Mommy” note on a napkin. In fact, don’t even include a napkin. If they prefer buying lunch, let them do it. It’s not expensive and it’s a balanced meal, so why not? However, depending on your child’s social circle, it may be uncool for her to buy cafeteria lunches, so she might instead purchase pizza or snack food (not the world’s healthiest meal). She’ll know what she wants to do within a few days of being at school. I search around Google for various combinations of “social outcast”, “loser”, “brown bag lunch” and “high school”, and found nothing indicating that brown-bagging it renders you as someone to be shunned. If you’re bringing food with a strong odor, like tuna fish with curry and Limburger cheese, yeah, that could be a problem. > [@](#): > > EDIT:For the limits of insanity my teen nephew and his friends care what STORE they purchase their brand names from, some stores are too cheap and therefore verboten. They post pics of the goods on facebook along with the receipt in the pic to prove they bought from the socially correct store for a high price. I’m calling bullshit, unless you live in Greenwich, Connecticut or someplace like that. I Googled “[post store receipts clothes on facebook](https://www.google.com/search?q=post+store+receipts+clothes+on+facebook)”, to see if this was a trend. Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/14 "2012-09-04T00:23:50Z")
I was brought up in a backward rural area, where people, generally speaking were rather poor. At my middle school, you would have been ostracized _for_ wearing a costly item. You would have been considered “rich” (with a very very low bar for “rich”, like in holding a regular non-management office job), and that was a _bad_ thing. Kids were discussing their parents’ income, but the lower the income, the better (I’m absolutely not exagerating or caricaturing). You’re ostracized for being different, it doesn’t matter in what way. I’ve worn mostly hand me out clothes during my childhood and teenage years, and when later I moved to Paris and was in high school, I just never noticed that kids were paying any attention to clothes. It’s not a concept that would have occured to me. I’m pretty sure they in fact did, but nobody ever made a single negative comment (that I remember, anyway). On the other hand, I was perceived as the equivalent of a redneck, so I suppose I was probably expected to wear non fashionable clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/15 "2012-09-04T00:28:01Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I search around Google for various combinations of “social outcast”, “loser”, “brown bag lunch” and “high school”, and found nothing indicating that brown-bagging it renders you as someone to be shunned. Lunchboxes are cool again, by the way. > [@elmwood](#): > > If a more socially adept student was wearing … oh, Brooks sneakers, and carrying a backpack that wasn’t from Jansport or High Sierra, it probably wouldn’t have made them an outcast. This is the thing that really gets me about the “cool backpacks.” I bought my Jansport backpack at Kmart (in 1995ish, mind you, so they didn’t recently become unhip). Nothing was less cool than shopping at Kmart, but everyone’s backpacks came from there. So how could one Kmart Jansport bag be cooler than the other? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-materialism-is-needed-to-operate-in-society/633552/16 "2012-09-04T01:07:03Z")
When you are a kid your sense of identity is weak because you lack life experience, so people fall back on materialism and social conformity to make up for a sense of self (that is my understanding of how it works). Plus you are forced to socialize with a stable group of people year after year, allowing pecking orders to develop. As you grow up you get to pick who you socialize with, and plus you develop your own personality and need trends less to develop an identity. So I really don’t see the problem. After your teens or 20s, I would assume most people reject rampant materialism as a path to identity and happiness. Those that do not can be avoided if that isn’t your thing. When you (the OP) say people call an actor who lives below his/her means a weirdo, I’m assuming/guessing you mean ‘entertainment journalists’ or people who really, really get into that stuff, when you say ‘people’. Entertainment journalists are likely to be among the most status and image obsessed people out there. That is like picking the most status obsessed person in junior high and extrapolating that to all people age 12-14. By and large, after you grow out of your teen years I think this kind of mindset pretty much dies out, unless you actively pursue this kind of lifestyle.