# How much neuro damage from ecstasy / X / MDMA ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 25, 2001, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660 "2001-10-25T23:03:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ModernRonin2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@ModernRonin2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernRonin2)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/1 "2001-10-25T23:03:00Z")
Dunno if the mods are going to kill this one or not. I’m not asking, “How can I buy/use MDMA”, I’m just trying to get some opinions (hopefully educated, or at least directly experienced) on what MDMA does to your brain. There seems to be a lot of, ah, “bovine adult male fecal matter” on this topic. I searched the SDMB for this subject and was surprised to find only a pit thread that only mentioned it more or less in passing. I’m surprised it hasn’t been covered before. It seems like an big well of ignorance just begging to be eradicated. So, how much damage does MDMA do to you? I think I understand the current theory of how and why the damage occurs - see [http://www.dancesafe.org/slideshow/](http://www.dancesafe.org/slideshow/) for the clearest explanation I’ve found. Everyone seems to agree that there’s obviously potential for some damage, especially in high doses. But how much damage does, say, a single dose do? What are the real risks and probabilities here? Qadgop? DoctorJ? Anyone? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![nickc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@nickc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nickc)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/2 "2001-10-26T00:27:36Z")
er… I’ve taken hundreds of pills without any _apparent_ effects. There is no real way to quantify the damage X does to your brain. The dosages used in studies that have found a neurotoxic reaction have been pretty high; 7mg/kg every 2 hours, or something similar. Whether MDMA is a human neurotoxin or not remains controversial. I have not noticed any of the supposedly concomitant effects after (ab)using MDMA nearly every week for months now. My speech is not impaired and my memory has improved. This is obviously a subjective conclusion, though I think it accurate. A single normal dose of X is not enough to damage your brain. Your brain’s store of serotonin will no doubt be depleted for a day or two, but you will be back to normal within a week. Of course, I have never known anyone to do X and walk away without some serious psychological impact. Be careful, the drug can show you things about yourself you may have been better off not knowing. It will thrust you into a state of absolute happiness. It’s really impossible to describe to anyone who has not done it, but I have always likened it to a constant full body orgrasm combined with this sense of _rightness_, sort of like Christmas morning as a little kid. from [http://www.ecstasy.org/info/novartisabs.html:](http://www.ecstasy.org/info/novartisabs.html:) > [@](#): > > Over the last decade, work from numerous independent research laboratories has shown that the recreational drug methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ‘ecstasy’) has the potential to damage brain serotonin neurons. Neurotoxic effects of MDMA have been documented in various animal species including rats, guinea pigs, squirrel monkeys, rhesus monkeys and, most recently, baboons. In all of these animal species, MDMA produces long-term deficits in presynaptic markers of serotonin neurons, changes that are most likely secondary to a destruction or ‘pruning’ of serotonin nerve endings. Interestingly, the cell body or perikaryon of serotonin neurons is not affected on a long-term basis by MDMA, leaving open the possibility of axonal regrowth and recovery in MDMA-lesioned animals. That page is slightly outdated, in the last two years a number of studies have been published that are hardly reassuring to the recreational X user. I’m not sure where these can be found on the internet; perhaps someone else can enlighten us. Incidentally, there are a few MDMA analogues that have no neurotoxic effects. Unfortunately they seem to be much harder to manufacture than MDMA and it’s illegal to even attempt it. I can’t wait to destroy more of my brain this weekend 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/3 "2001-10-26T04:18:41Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] As this is a question which can have a factual answer (a doctor listing the effects of X, for instance), I think this is better suited to General Questions. Don’t make it into a debate on the morality of drug use or a listing of local suppliers of illegal drugs or you’ll piss off the GQ mods. 😉 [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/4 "2001-10-26T04:54:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nickc \* > \*\*A single normal dose of X is not enough to damage your brain. Your brain’s store of serotonin will no doubt be depleted for a day or two, but you will be back to normal within a week. Of course, I have never known anyone to do X and walk away without some serious psychological impact. I can’t wait to destroy more of my brain this weekend 😃 \*\* Thank you, Doctor. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/5 "2001-10-26T05:02:18Z")
I just received an email this morning about a recent study that showed Ecstacy can possibly cause longterm changes in the brain. I deleted it and can’t find the source. I realize this doesn’t help, but I had to post it anyway. If I find it later, I’ll post it. - Jill ---
**Author:** ![nickc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@nickc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nickc)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/6 "2001-10-26T05:10:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tsunamisurfer \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by nickc \* > > \*\*A single normal dose of X is not enough to damage your brain. Your brain’s store of serotonin will no doubt be depleted for a day or two, but you will be back to normal within a week. Of course, I have never known anyone to do X and walk away without some serious psychological impact. I can’t wait to destroy more of my brain this weekend 😃 \*\* > > Thank you, Doctor. Case closed. \*\* I didn’t realize re-stating a known fact required a degree in medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Ottoerotic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6de8d8/32.png) [@Ottoerotic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ottoerotic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/7 "2001-10-26T05:21:44Z")
We just watched a video on X in my psychology class (from 20-20 i believe). They had this one female on that used every weekend for 2 years (age 18-20) When she finally decided to get help they showed a brain scan that they did on her. She had the brain of an 80 year old. Her cortex looked like swiss cheese, very bad, very permanant. It sure scared the hell out of me. Not saying that this happens to everyone, but looking at risk vs reward i’d pass. ---
**Author:** ![Ottoerotic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6de8d8/32.png) [@Ottoerotic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ottoerotic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/8 "2001-10-26T05:27:53Z")
Did some looking and found some actual sites to back up my info. Apparently X leads to a widespread decrease in cognitive function, and (at least in animals) can last 7+ years. Here’s a good site [http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/mdma/ecstasy020700.htm](http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/mdma/ecstasy020700.htm) ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/9 "2001-10-26T05:40:23Z")
There is wide variation in people’s responses to recreational drugs. It’s not accurate to say that any of them are harmless for everyone, because there are definitely horror stories out there. It’s also true that some people take all kinds of drugs with no apparent ill-effects. Most generalizations are not helpful on an individual level. We do ask that no one encourage anyone on our Message Board to use illicit drugs. - Jill ---
**Author:** ![nickc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@nickc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nickc)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/10 "2001-10-26T06:20:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by otto3883 \* > \*\*We just watched a video on X in my psychology class (from 20-20 i believe). They had this one female on that used every weekend for 2 years (age 18-20) When she finally decided to get help they showed a brain scan that they did on her. She had the brain of an 80 year old. Her cortex looked like swiss cheese, very bad, very permanant. It sure scared the hell out of me. Not saying that this happens to everyone, but looking at risk vs reward i’d pass. \*\* That’s from 48 hours. MDMA use does NOT lead to holes in the brain, this has been refuted. [http://www.dancesafe.org/48hours.html](http://www.dancesafe.org/48hours.html) ---
**Author:** ![nickc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@nickc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nickc)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/11 "2001-10-26T06:38:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by otto3883 \* > \*\*Did some looking and found some actual sites to back up my info. > > Apparently X leads to a widespread decrease in cognitive function, and (at least in animals) can last 7+ years. > > Here’s a good site > > [http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/mdma/ecstasy020700.htm](http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/mdma/ecstasy020700.htm) \*\* This study is biased and the ‘decrease in cognitive function’ can only casually be attributed to MDMA. For a bit more insight: [http://www.erowid.org/mdma/references/mdma\_research\_summaries.shtml](http://www.erowid.org/mdma/references/mdma_research_summaries.shtml) The topic of MDMA is loaded with fear inducing propaganda. As the OP noted, there is a lot of bullshit floating around. It’s very sad that most of what people know about X seem to be a lie. Let’s seperate fact from fiction so that some progress can be made, please! ---
**Author:** ![ModernRonin2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@ModernRonin2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernRonin2)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/12 "2001-10-26T07:46:41Z")
**nickc** _Of course, I have never known anyone to do X and walk away without some serious psychological impact. Be careful, the drug can show you things about yourself you may have been better off not knowing._ I think I’ve heard this caution before. What gives? Is this like how they tried to use LSD to show alcoholics the reality of their habit or something? _This study ([http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/mdma/ecstasy020700.htm](http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/mdma/ecstasy020700.htm)) is biased and the ‘decrease in cognitive function’ can only casually be attributed to MDMA._ So, I read the page, and the key word seemed to be in the first sentence “chronic use of MDMA.” In other words, people who use it a lot, repeatedly, and presumably over a fairly long period of time. But anyway, when you say the study is biased, how do you mean? I’m just curious what they did wrong. I mean, obviously, this was conducted by the government and they generally seem to have a dogmatic belief that MDMA is dangerous - which may be right or may not. But their conclusions seem fairly well-supported by the research. At least, it doesn’t seem like there’s any question that chronic use of MDMA can cause axon damage. Though I dunno if I can necessarily follow their next leap, which says that damage to serotonin axons = memory impairment. _The topic of MDMA is loaded with fear inducing propaganda. As the OP noted, there is a lot of bullshit floating around. It’s very sad that most of what people know about X seem to be a lie. Let’s seperate factfrom fiction so that some progress can be made, please!_ Yes, that’s why I put this in GD originally. Didn’t seem like we there were a lot of hard and fast answers… I wanna read what the [eroid.org](http://eroid.org) pages say, but the webs(w)erver there keeps crapping out on me. First my connection was refused, now it can’t even find the IP address for [http://www.eroid.org](http://www.eroid.org). Mutter, grumble… I’ll keep trying. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/13 "2001-10-26T13:55:33Z")
FWIW, I’m a biologist and read the primary published data, so I avoid urban legends/media hype. That said, I can only remember one study I thought valid, and there may be many, many more out there that I missed, since this isn’t a topic of huge interest to me. The study I **do** remember boiled down to this - in monkeys dosed with large (but not rediculous) amounts of X for several months running, the seretonin-producing neurons eventually burned out and dyed. The resulting monkeys acted depressed, agressive, and self-destructive. However, that data’s not worth much, since almost no humans (that I know of) are on X **constantly**. Rest periods during the week may make up for weekend use - or not. I have heard anecdotal reports of people who were long term X users who ended up with chronic depression, possibly due to dysfunstion of seritonin-producing neurons. But, as I’m sure you realize, this is a self-selected population. You will hear from people who are depressed and blaming it on drug use, but most people who _aren’t_ depressed won’t be out there complaining. So after four paragraphs: I don’t know. And I suspect nobody else does either. And I think **JillGat** is right, there is a huge range in individual responses. My best advice is to go out there and talk to people who have been using/know people who have been using the any drug you may have an interest in. Allow for the fact that they have a postive bias, as they clearly like these drugs. Judge for yourself if they seem impaired, or more impaired than they started off. Sure, it’s anecdotal, but if you talk to enough people with enough experience, you begin to approach the range of “expert”. And, since good controlled experiments of this sort are illegal in humans, I think it might be the best information out there. Just my humble opinion… mischievous ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/14 "2001-10-26T14:13:53Z")
Anything that monkeys with your serotonin system should really be handled most cautiously, people. Our data on what the SSRI’s (antidepressants like prozac) do is a whole lot more complete than our data on MDMA, yet people are screaming about how the SSRI’s are bad for you; yet many of these same people don’t seem to think taking MDMA is bad. My take from reading the professional literature: We don’t know yet the threshold for permanent neurologic change from MDMA. Quite frankly, I’d not be at all surprised to find the threshold is a lot lower than previously thought. And probably does not require chronic or daily use. But we won’t have more hard data until we get to study more users of it more thoroughly with PET scans, cognitive function testing, etc. And we’ll need to test them before and after dosing. It takes awhile to accumulate info that sophisticated. **Neurodoc** , you out there? I know your knowledge of this stuff is orders of magnitude better than mine! QtM ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/15 "2001-10-26T15:12:34Z")
Beware Ecstasy By Robin Foster HealthScoutNews Reporter WEDNESDAY, Oct. 24 (HealthScoutNews) – You may want to add liver failure to the list of dangers tied to the club drug ecstasy. A new report from doctors at the University of Nebraska Medical Center found that ecstasy caused profound liver damage in a young woman who eventually died. Although the woman claimed she had only taken half a tablet of the club drug, her body reacted drastically, the researchers say. “You never know who’s going to react,” says lead author Dr. Nuri Ozden. “What happens is people go to a party, they take ecstasy, they dance, they get dehydrated. Due to the hypertension, the liver and kidney get injured due to the lack of blood. They get a significant amount of fluid loss, and if they don’t keep up their fluid intake, organs don’t get enough blood flow. The kidney and the liver are the most vulnerable.” Ozden presented his findings yesterday at the annual meeting of the American College of Gastroenterology in Atlanta. In the case study, doctors report that a 24-year-old woman was transferred to the medical center’s liver transplant unit after having jaundice for 48 hours and suffering liver damage. She admitted to taking half a tablet of ecstasy, but denied using any other drugs or alcohol. Her condition deteriorated rapidly, and doctors had to intubate her. Knowing her liver was about to fail, they found a donor liver and grafted part of that onto her liver. The graft failed, she started having seizures, and her brain hemorrhaged. At that point, her family requested she be taken off life support. Ozden notes that patients whose livers fail because of medications often don’t respond well to transplants. “It’s a multi-system failure, not just one organ,” he explains. In Europe, where ecstasy use is more common, about 20 to 30 cases of liver failure have been reported, he adds. But the drug damages whatever organ it attacks, often causing kidney damage, brain seizures and heart attacks. “It doesn’t surprise me,” says Dr. Steven Lee, a clinical instructor at the New York University School of Medicine who researches the effects of club drugs. “I’ve heard of a couple of cases of liver failures and liver deaths. I’ve also heard of people getting hepatitis from using ecstasy.” Lee notes that it’s hard to pin down the exact effects of ecstasy because you can’t do clinical trials, and that when people report they took the drug, there’s no way of knowing whether it was really ecstasy. “Studies have shown that 20 percent to 60 percent of what’s sold as ecstasy is not ecstasy at all. Sometimes it’s mixed with other things, and sometimes there’s no ecstasy at all,” Lee says. “That complicates things.” To make matters worse, there’s a new drug out there that’s similar to ecstasy but much more toxic, Lee adds. It’s called PMA, or paramethoxyamphetamine, and although reports of PMA deaths using first cropped up in Australia, it’s working its way here. Another uncertainty is that not everyone’s liver reacts the same way to club drugs, he adds: “Each person’s liver has a different ability to metabolize ecstasy or PMA. Slow metabolisms may be more susceptible.” And taking any other medications that slow your metabolism, such as Prozac, can spell trouble. Ecstasy is a synthetic drug that produces both stimulant and hallucinogenic effects. Studies suggest its chemical structure might cause memory problems and possibly brain damage, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). “What’s coming out in studies is that, in addition to death, people are having, even years later, problems with thinking, memory and mental attention,” Lee notes. Scientists know that ecstasy causes the release of the brain chemical serotonin, which is associated with mood. The resulting high, which lasts from several minutes to an hour, produces increased energy, along with a feeling of peacefulness and empathy. But there’s a bad side to the drug. It can cause side effects, like nausea, blurred vision, faintness, chills or sweating. And increases in heart rate and blood pressure can be especially dangerous for people with circulatory or heart disease. That hasn’t stopped 1.3 million American teen-agers from trying it, although maybe it should. “It’s a risky trip,” says Ozden. “It’s a killer.” ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/16 "2001-10-26T15:25:56Z")
I’m posting these articles (with permission) because we get asked about this a lot. - Jill Memory Loss from Ecstasy May Be Lasting by GayHealth Staff Ever hear someone quip that their memory loss is the result of too much fun in college? Well there is some evidence to substantiate that claim. According to a new study, using ecstasy may have a long lasting effect on memory loss even after you stop using it. Other studies have found that ecstasy damages brain serotonin (5-HT) neurons in animals, which are linked to memory function. “In the longer term, research shows that ecstasy can cause lasting changes in the brain’s chemical systems that control mood and memory,” said Dr. Alan I. Leshner, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). According to a study published in the October issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry, while these brain neurons may eventually recover, harm to your memory function may be long lasting. Researchers from the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, examined the brain neurons and memory function of 51 participants. Twenty-two of the participants had recently used ecstasy, 16 had stopped using ecstasy for at least one year and there was a control group of 13 non users. While the brain abnormalities were different between current and past users, the loss of memory was similar when compared to the control group. Research shows that Ecstasy can cause lasting changes in the brain’s chemical systems that control mood and memory. “The present study suggests that, while the neurotoxic effects of MDMA on 5-HT neurons in the human cortex may be reversible, the effects of MDMA on memory function may be long-lasting,” the study authors concluded. Scientists and researchers convened at a conference in July to focus on the drug ecstasy, it’s long-term consequences, drug interactions, patterns of abuse, risk perceptions, and implications for prevention and treatment research. “The latest research shows that ecstasy, despite its name, is not a harmless ‘party’ drug. In the short term, ecstasy can cause dramatic changes in heart rate and blood pressure, dehydration, and a potentially life-threatening increase in body temperature,” said Leshner. Updated: Tuesday, 16 October 2001 ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/17 "2001-10-26T15:31:14Z")
SOURCE: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration New Trends Released for Drug Related Emergency Department Visits 20 Percent Increase Found for Youth Age 12 to 17 WASHINGTON, July 25 /PRNewswire/ – Emergency department visits involving the club drug MDMA (Ecstasy) increased 58 percent, from 2,850 visits in 1999 to 4,511 in 2000 in the continental United States. The number of heroin/morphine related visits increased 15 percent, from 84,409 to 97,287. These and other significant trends in drug related emergency department visits are reported for the first time today with the release of the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration’s (SAMHSA) 2000 Emergency Department Data from the Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN). Among 21 metropolitan areas covered by DAWN, 7 had increases in drug related emergency department visits from 1999 to 2000: 32 percent in Seattle (from 8,426 to 11,116), 28 percent in Boston (from 11,699 to 14,902), 22 percent in Los Angeles (from 20,678 to 25,288), 20 percent in Miami (from 7,128 to 8,560), 16 percent in Chicago (from 26,158 to 30,330), 12 percent in Minneapolis (from 4,643 to 5,198), and 9 percent in Phoenix (from 8,293 to 9,072). Drug related emergency department visits decreased 19 percent in Baltimore (from 14,172 to 11,505) and 12 percent in San Francisco (from 8,930 to 7,857). No overall changes were reported in Atlanta (11,114 visits), Buffalo (2,899), Dallas (6,798), Denver (4,946), Detroit (17,042), New Orleans (4,664), New York (31,885), Newark (7,749), Philadelphia (23,433), St. Louis (6,908), San Diego (7,094), and Washington, DC (10,303). `This report shows again that we face serious gaps in preventing and treating substance abuse, especially with club drugs,'' said Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson. `Our first line of defense against substance abuse must be prevention. We need to reach out to people before they become statistics in emergency departments - - or worse, in the morgue. This is why it’s so important for Congress to move quickly to approve the Administration’s drug prevention and treatment budget.’’ * * * From Chicago Daily Herald Tuesday August 07 07:45 AM EDT Why state is getting tough on club drugs By John Patterson Daily Herald State Government Writer SPRINGFIELD - New, tougher laws for drug dealers won’t bring back Bob and Jan Aeschlimann’s daughter. But the Naperville couple hope they will stop other children from experimenting with so-called club drugs like Ecstasy and make them and their parents aware of the dangers of the increasingly popular and often deadly drugs. “Unfortunately it wasn’t soon enough for us. Hopefully it will be for other people,” said Bob Aeschlimann after Gov. George Ryan signed the new law. Sara Aeschlimann died of a lethal overdose of a drug known as PMA, which is similar but stronger than Ecstasy. Her death occurred on May 14, 2000, Mother’s Day. She was 18 and a senior at Naperville Central. One of her friends, Garrett Harth, faces involuntary manslaughter charges on suspicion he provided her with the drugs. Dubbed “club drugs” because of their popularity at underground clubs and all-night rave parties, Ecstasy and its variations have shown up with increasing frequency in the suburban area, said DuPage County State’s Attorney Joseph Birkett. The new law signed by the governor on Monday goes into effect Jan. 1 and moves Ecstasy, PMA and other so-called club drugs into the same category as cocaine, heroin and LSD under the state’s criminal laws. As a result, those caught dealing the drug will face more prison time and will not be eligible for probation. Birkett said drug dealers have moved into club drugs because the penalties were less severe. As a result, the drugs have spread rapidly with little knowledge of the potential dangers or varying levels of potency the drugs pack. Under current law, someone could be caught with up to 900 pills of the drug and still be eligible for probation. Beginning Jan. 1, anyone caught dealing as few as 15 pills faces a Class X felony charge punishable by up to 30 years in prison. Probation is not an option. “There’s no question that the deterrent value is there,” Birkett said of the tougher penalties. Ryan said the law was “long overdue” and should send a message to drug dealers. Sponsors of the new law included House Republican Leader Lee A. Daniels of Elmhurst and Sen. Kirk Dillard, a Hinsdale Republican. Also on hand for the signing of the new law Monday were Stephen and Kate Patton. Kate’s daughter Kelley McEnery Baker died in 1999 of an Ecstasy overdose. The law is named after her. Kate Patton, who lives in Rolling Meadows, formed the Kelley McEnery Baker Foundation to raise awareness of Ecstasy. Stephen Patton, Kelley’s stepfather and a Springfield resident, said the state’s efforts show Kelley “didn’t die in vain.” Police in New Jersey found Baker’s body in a motel room. She and her boyfriend were both dead from overdoses. According to media reports, the police also found $35,000 in marijuana, $6,000 worth of Ecstasy and other drugs in the room. Kate Patton said she lost her daughter to Ecstasy three times, first when she started using, then when she began dealing, and finally to an overdose. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/18 "2001-10-26T15:49:22Z")
Whoops. Forgot to post a link to the Straight Dope staff report about this: [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mdesignerdrug.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mdesignerdrug.html) ---
**Author:** ![nickc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@nickc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nickc)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/19 "2001-10-26T16:36:39Z")
ModernRonin2: MDMA can cast light upon a few facets of your life that you might rather have left alone. Imagine having a drastic change in your personality for a few hours; and by drastic I mean frequently life changing. Many people are secure with themselves how they are and doing X could unsettle them, to say the least. The study is biased by the researchers own beliefs, which are clearly anti-MDMA. The study really revealed no real link between MDMA and memory impairment, though they did imply it. The people tested were not subjected to any cognitive testing before their MDMA use, so there is really nothing to compare to. Essentially, the only fact we can glean from it is that one group of people scored lower than another group of people in a series of cognitive tests. I agree with you that research concludes that some axon damage occurs. I’m not an expert; maybe someone else can clarify serotonin’s roll in the brain. I have been led to believe that a lot of what we know about it is theory. Try [http://www.erowid.org](http://www.erowid.org) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fornit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@Fornit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fornit)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660/20 "2001-10-26T17:47:58Z")
As a former long term, heavy user of Ecstasy, I can offer anecdotal evidence that at least in my case it did cause some memory issues, and I do find that I am more prone to bouts of depression now than before I started. I did a lot of research and took the suggested precautions to help prevent neurotoxicity. However, the key point I want to stress is that Ecstasy is a street drug. As such there is no quality control and tests have proven that a large percentage do not contain MDMA at all, but some other cocktail of substances (see links in previous posts). With this in mind, no amount of research will be able to give you an accurate risk analysis, as you will never really know what it is you’re ingesting. All the MDMA research in the world won’t help you if you’re really taking PMA or PCP or just plain old caffeine. fornit [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-neuro-damage-from-ecstasy-x-mdma/89660.md?page=2)