# How much of a college education should be free? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 30, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715 "2022-04-30T12:08:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/61 "2022-05-07T14:47:14Z")
It’s true that i expect my plumber to be able to discuss my job over email. But i feel that ought to be a grade 8 skill, not a grade 12 skill. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/62 "2022-05-07T15:52:53Z")
In my experience, it’s really not. The grammar and mechanics? Sure. The theory of mind is harder. Asking a precise question, giving a multi-step answer or directions that are clear and on point . . these are actually pretty advanced. It takes practice, instruction, and feedback. I mean, that’s why so many adulys, even professionals, are bad at it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/63 "2022-05-07T16:16:00Z")
There’s also the tricky question of what to do with students who wouldn’t be very good in the college environment or subsequent professions, and also wouldn’t be very good in the skilled trades. Sure, maybe everyone’s good at something, but it isn’t always something you can make a living at. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/64 "2022-05-07T16:35:00Z")
Ideally, better education earlier would fix most of that. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/65 "2022-05-11T02:27:14Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > > > because the boards and alumni of these institutions would feel like this strategy would dilute the schools’ brands which is very critical to those particular stakeholders. > > 1. of course it would dilute their brands > 2. what problem would it solve? There’s no shortage of colleges > > I think we have three problems in the US: > > 1. too many jobs require a college degree. This is partly because our high schools suck, in many cases, and businesses see college as meaning “can read, write, and cipher”. > 2. college costs to damn much. I don’t think everyone should go to college, but i think state schools should be free to those who qualify. > 3. we don’t have a lot of non-college job education. Vocational school in my high school was where those who couldn’t hack high school ended up. But why? A good electrician needs to understand some math. There are tons of jobs that would be better served by teaching kids how to do those jobs, and tons of kids who would be good at doing those, and well-served by an easy path to get there. This should also be free to those who qualify. > > It’s the job of society to rear the next generation. I suppose that begs the question “what is the actual purpose of college”? At least, what is the purpose such that some of the more expensive ones cost $70k to $80k a year or more? Is it to actually educate and prepare people for future careers? Or is the purpose of college to serve as a sort of country club for the wealthy to send their kids to for 4 years (or longer in some cases) before joining the “real world”? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/66 "2022-05-11T14:48:50Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I suppose that begs the question “what is the actual purpose of college”? At least, what is the purpose such that some of the more expensive ones cost $70k to $80k a year or more? But couldn’t you ask similar questions about lots of things? “What is the actual purpose of a house, that some of the more expensive ones cost upwards of a million dollars?” “What is the actual purpose of a car, that some of the more expensive ones cost $50K or more?” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/67 "2022-05-11T23:28:40Z")
I think we do ask that about home prices when they become unaffordable. And no one says you need to buy a $2 million Bugatti to get to work in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/68 "2022-05-12T02:25:02Z")
No one says you need to go to a private college to get a job, either. But i will say that the fancy private colleges don’t see their goal as “preparing students for a career” but more as “educating students”. At Harvard commencement, the president of the University welcomes new graduates into the society of educated men and women. And some of the expensive private colleges aren’t very good at helping their students get jobs, fwiw. That being said, there’s no shortage of colleges, either expensive private ones, or states schools, or community college. So i don’t see any reason why we need the ivy league to expand their campuses. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/69 "2022-05-12T22:44:43Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > No one says you need to go to a private college to get a job, either. Except for everyone! Granted, there are all sorts of jobs that require all sorts of levels of education - community college, trade schools, 4 year professional degrees, masters and PhDs, etc. But given that there is a strong correlation between education level and income level, I think the concern is that college is often less about intellect and and ability as it is about money and knowing how to work the admissions system. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/70 "2022-05-12T23:00:36Z")
Other than “investment banker”, which I’ve heard is easier to get if you went to an ivy league school, i honestly can’t think of any jobs that you can’t get with a degree from a state college. I mean, you might need to also go to law school or medical school… Maybe it helps to get some jobs if your went to a week known conservatory or art school? But i can’t think of any jobs where you need to have gone to Harvard rather than U Mass. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/71 "2022-05-12T23:21:35Z")
Which doesn’t help much if you can’t afford UMass, either. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/72 "2022-05-12T23:33:02Z")
I totally agree. I think the state schools should be free. I was just pushing back on the “ivy leagues should expand” post. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/73 "2022-05-13T00:01:08Z")
> [@naita](#): > > With the exception of a small fraction of relatively healthy, but bored and lonely octo- and nonagenarians who like chatting with the doctor regularly. Impossible the last 2 years - believe me, I’ve tried! ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/74 "2022-05-13T01:42:15Z")
Knowledge should not be hoarded and doled out to only the wealthy. People who don’t have good marks in grades 9-12 should be given preferential admission if they want it–clearly they need it. BA and higher programs should have rigid and uniform academic standards, so people with degrees meet a baseline of critical thinking skills and general knowledge. A stupid populace hurts everyone (as we’re seeing). Make that shit free and stop worrying about buying some kid a free beer. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/75 "2022-05-13T10:12:38Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Other than “investment banker”, which I’ve heard is easier to get if you went to an ivy league school, i honestly can’t think of any jobs that you can’t get with a degree from a state college. I mean, you might need to also go to law school or medical school… Maybe it helps to get some jobs if your went to a week known conservatory or art school? > > But i can’t think of any jobs where you need to have gone to Harvard rather than U Mass. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I totally agree. I think the state schools should be free. I was just pushing back on the “ivy leagues should expand” post. I never said “Ivy Leagues should expand”. I questioned why the cost of college is outpacing everything else. IMHO you shouldn’t have to get paid like an investment banking to go to college. Also, after financial aid, UMAss is actually more expensive than Harvard. It seems that if you are qualified to get in, Harvard tends to make sure you can afford to go there. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/76 "2022-05-13T11:36:51Z")
Depends on income, right? It leads to a weirdness where the kid with little money can afford to go to Harvard but not even $5k/year after aid for a state school, but the kid with a household income of $200k may well be able to easily afford $15-30k/year for a state school but not be able to realistically afford the $80k/year for Harvard. This is why it is hard to advise people generally on these issues. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/77 "2022-05-13T13:48:54Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I never said “Ivy Leagues should expand”. No, someone else did (@Omar_Little, I think). And IMHO it misses the point of why people want to go to Harvard. It’s as if you said: Lots of people want to live in New York City, but it’s so crowded and so expensive: they should establish branch New York Cities around the country so that more people can live there. > [@msmith537](#): > > I questioned why the cost of college is outpacing everything else. That’s a good question, and one that has been discussed before in other threads. But let’s be clear: when you say “the cost of college” do you mean 1. the official “sticker price” of tuition (and room and board and fees and etc.) 2. what students actually end up paying once financial aid is factored in, or 3. the cost _to the college_ of providing education and associated services to its students. All three of these are increasing; and #3 is at least part of what’s driving #1 and #2. And the rising cost of college in the #3 sense is more of an _obstacle to_ “free college” than it is a motivation for it. There are colleges and universities that try to operate efficiently and keep their costs down and make every penny count, and prospective students are free to choose such colleges; but those are often not the colleges that thrive and prosper. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/78 "2022-05-13T13:53:08Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Depends on income, right? Not right. That only makes sense if you agree education should be sold in the first place, rather than made available to people who want it and are likely to understand the information being given to them. We have become accustomed to paying for information, but that doesn’t mean that paradigm is good or even moral. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/79 "2022-05-13T14:07:44Z")
You aren’t paying for information, you’re paying for skilled instruction (and the facility it takes place in). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715/80 "2022-05-13T14:09:43Z")
“You droped 150 grand on a fuckin’ education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library.” -[Will Hunting](https://youtu.be/hIdsjNGCGz4?t=177) Information is freer and more aaccessible than it’s ever been. Providing a college education involves way more than just making information available. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-college-education-should-be-free/963715.md?page=5)