It’s true that i expect my plumber to be able to discuss my job over email. But i feel that ought to be a grade 8 skill, not a grade 12 skill.
In my experience, it’s really not. The grammar and mechanics? Sure. The theory of mind is harder. Asking a precise question, giving a multi-step answer or directions that are clear and on point . . these are actually pretty advanced. It takes practice, instruction, and feedback.
I mean, that’s why so many adulys, even professionals, are bad at it.
There’s also the tricky question of what to do with students who wouldn’t be very good in the college environment or subsequent professions, and also wouldn’t be very good in the skilled trades. Sure, maybe everyone’s good at something, but it isn’t always something you can make a living at.
Ideally, better education earlier would fix most of that.
I suppose that begs the question “what is the actual purpose of college”? At least, what is the purpose such that some of the more expensive ones cost $70k to $80k a year or more? Is it to actually educate and prepare people for future careers?
Or is the purpose of college to serve as a sort of country club for the wealthy to send their kids to for 4 years (or longer in some cases) before joining the “real world”?
But couldn’t you ask similar questions about lots of things? “What is the actual purpose of a house, that some of the more expensive ones cost upwards of a million dollars?” “What is the actual purpose of a car, that some of the more expensive ones cost $50K or more?”
I think we do ask that about home prices when they become unaffordable. And no one says you need to buy a $2 million Bugatti to get to work in the morning.
No one says you need to go to a private college to get a job, either.
But i will say that the fancy private colleges don’t see their goal as “preparing students for a career” but more as “educating students”. At Harvard commencement, the president of the University welcomes new graduates into the society of educated men and women.
And some of the expensive private colleges aren’t very good at helping their students get jobs, fwiw.
That being said, there’s no shortage of colleges, either expensive private ones, or states schools, or community college. So i don’t see any reason why we need the ivy league to expand their campuses.
Except for everyone!
Granted, there are all sorts of jobs that require all sorts of levels of education - community college, trade schools, 4 year professional degrees, masters and PhDs, etc.
But given that there is a strong correlation between education level and income level, I think the concern is that college is often less about intellect and and ability as it is about money and knowing how to work the admissions system.
Other than “investment banker”, which I’ve heard is easier to get if you went to an ivy league school, i honestly can’t think of any jobs that you can’t get with a degree from a state college. I mean, you might need to also go to law school or medical school… Maybe it helps to get some jobs if your went to a week known conservatory or art school?
But i can’t think of any jobs where you need to have gone to Harvard rather than U Mass.
Which doesn’t help much if you can’t afford UMass, either.
I totally agree. I think the state schools should be free. I was just pushing back on the “ivy leagues should expand” post.
Impossible the last 2 years - believe me, I’ve tried!
Knowledge should not be hoarded and doled out to only the wealthy.
People who don’t have good marks in grades 9-12 should be given preferential admission if they want it–clearly they need it.
BA and higher programs should have rigid and uniform academic standards, so people with degrees meet a baseline of critical thinking skills and general knowledge.
A stupid populace hurts everyone (as we’re seeing). Make that shit free and stop worrying about buying some kid a free beer.
I never said “Ivy Leagues should expand”. I questioned why the cost of college is outpacing everything else. IMHO you shouldn’t have to get paid like an investment banking to go to college.
Also, after financial aid, UMAss is actually more expensive than Harvard. It seems that if you are qualified to get in, Harvard tends to make sure you can afford to go there.
Depends on income, right? It leads to a weirdness where the kid with little money can afford to go to Harvard but not even $5k/year after aid for a state school, but the kid with a household income of $200k may well be able to easily afford $15-30k/year for a state school but not be able to realistically afford the $80k/year for Harvard.
This is why it is hard to advise people generally on these issues.
No, someone else did (@Omar_Little, I think). And IMHO it misses the point of why people want to go to Harvard. It’s as if you said: Lots of people want to live in New York City, but it’s so crowded and so expensive: they should establish branch New York Cities around the country so that more people can live there.
That’s a good question, and one that has been discussed before in other threads. But let’s be clear: when you say “the cost of college” do you mean
- the official “sticker price” of tuition (and room and board and fees and etc.)
- what students actually end up paying once financial aid is factored in, or
- the cost to the college of providing education and associated services to its students.
All three of these are increasing; and #3 is at least part of what’s driving #1 and #2. And the rising cost of college in the #3 sense is more of an obstacle to “free college” than it is a motivation for it.
There are colleges and universities that try to operate efficiently and keep their costs down and make every penny count, and prospective students are free to choose such colleges; but those are often not the colleges that thrive and prosper.
Not right. That only makes sense if you agree education should be sold in the first place, rather than made available to people who want it and are likely to understand the information being given to them. We have become accustomed to paying for information, but that doesn’t mean that paradigm is good or even moral.
You aren’t paying for information, you’re paying for skilled instruction (and the facility it takes place in).
“You droped 150 grand on a fuckin’ education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library.” -Will Hunting
Information is freer and more aaccessible than it’s ever been. Providing a college education involves way more than just making information available.