# How much of a factor is the Mafia today in America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 1, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956 "2004-05-01T07:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/1 "2004-05-01T07:17:14Z")
Shows like the Sopranos would lead one to believe that La Cosa Nostra survived the much publicised crack down of the 80’s that culminated in John Gotti going to jail (and eventually dying of cancer while in prison). Did this spell the end for the Italian mob or did they adapt in part by adopting a lower profile. In the late 1990’s my wife worked for a company (as a public records researcher) called National Finance (it seemed like they sold most of their loans to the Bank of New York). I always joked that they seemed like they had connections to organized crime (most because they were based out of New York and the top twenty or so guys _all_ had Italian names. Anyway, after she left the company to start her own business I read how they were busted for massive fraud (not all that uncommon in the mortgage business unfortunately). What’s more a story about the Bank of New York around the same time referenced possible connections to the Russian Mafia (but conspicuously said nothing of the American Mafia). I couldn’t find the story that I read about four years ago, but did find a couple of relevent links below. Could the Italian mob still be out there in greater numbers (in the United States)than is commonly accepted today? [www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2003/](http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2003/) 04/28/daily64.html?jst=s\_rs\_hl - 45k [http://www.russianlaw.org/crisis.htm](http://www.russianlaw.org/crisis.htm) ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/2 "2004-05-01T13:12:32Z")
I did a google search for site:fbi.gov mafi [Here’s](http://foia.fbi.gov/mafiamon.htm) the info: > [@](#): > > Since their appearance in the 1800s, the Italian criminal societies known as the Mafia have infiltrated the social and economic fabric of Italy, and now impact the world. They are some of the most notorious and widespread of all criminal societies. > > Those currently active in the United States are the Sicilian Mafia, Camorra or Neapolitan Mafia, 'Ndrangheta or Calabrian Mafia, and Sacra Corona Unita or United Sacred Crown. The FBI refers to them as “Italian Organized Crime” (IOC). > > The FBI estimates the size of the four IOC groups to be approximately 25,000 members and 250,000 affiliates worldwide. There are more than 3,000 members and affiliates in the United States scattered mostly throughout the major cities in the Northeast, the Midwest, California, and the South. However, their largest presence centers around New York, southern New Jersey, and Philadelphia. Their criminal activities are international with members and affiliates in Canada, South America, Australia, and parts of Europe. These organizations are also known to collaborate with other international organized crime groups from all over the world ---
**Author:** ![Improv\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b3f665/32.png) [@Improv\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improv_Geek)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/3 "2004-05-01T14:38:39Z")
The mafia is still around, they have toned it all down and are definitely not what they were in their hey day. I do have one friend who’s godfather is a boss in the Mob and she told me one day that she is set for life and only works to stay busy. So they do exist but it isn’t a puppeteer of the nation or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/4 "2004-05-01T14:56:16Z")
I have a couple second cousins (scumbags) who are up to their eyeballs in La Cosa Nostra in Philadelphia … or were anyway, until the Feds got them, last year. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/5 "2004-05-01T17:27:59Z")
I guess my grandfather would have been considered an affiliate. He worked numbers games in the Pittsburgh area. Since, however, he died a few weeks ago at the age of 94, that FBI number might have to be adjusted to 249,999. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/6 "2004-05-01T18:50:43Z")
I am descended from a guy (from Corleone, Sicily, no less) who, after the Mafia really picked up steam in Italy, decided to pack it up and leave, as he wanted no part of it (this was shortly after WW1). I guess New York (his point of entry) was too full of the mob for his tastes as well, as he eventually made his way down here to very un-Mobified southeast Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/7 "2004-05-03T05:35:53Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > I am descended from a guy (from Corleone, Sicily, no less) who, after the Mafia really picked up steam in Italy, decided to pack it up and leave, as he wanted no part of it (this was shortly after WW1). I guess New York (his point of entry) was too full of the mob for his tastes as well, as he eventually made his way down here to very un-Mobified southeast Texas. My hypothesis on this issue is that the Italian mob is still a major force in America. However, I believe that they have better integrated themselves into more legitimate businesses (such as the mortgage industry) where “cheating/law breaking” may not be as obvious or as easy to prosecute with statutes like RICO. How might someone go about researching this thesis? ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/8 "2004-05-03T10:13:03Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#): > > My hypothesis on this issue is that the Italian mob is still a major force in America. However, I believe that they have better integrated themselves into more legitimate businesses (such as the mortgage industry) where “cheating/law breaking” may not be as obvious or as easy to prosecute with statutes like RICO. How might someone go about researching this thesis? I remember a couple of years ago seeing some stories in the news about the mob getting into the stock market during the tech boom. I don’t remember what exactly was going on, pump and dump, and some other shady stuff. Sorry I’m not more helpful, but it’s another place to look. I remember one of the news stories talking about how the stock trading was an example of the mob’s attempt to modernize. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/9 "2004-05-03T14:24:25Z")
> [@Dignan](#): > > I remember a couple of years ago seeing some stories in the news about the mob getting into the stock market during the tech boom. I don’t remember what exactly was going on, pump and dump, and some other shady stuff. Sorry I’m not more helpful, but it’s another place to look. I remember one of the news stories talking about how the stock trading was an example of the mob’s attempt to modernize. I read an article in an ‘adult’ men’s magazine about this particular ‘mob’ business a couple of years ago. Either Playboy or Penthouse, can’t remember which. So there’s a pointer for further research, if anyone’s interested in either finding out more about this or seeing a whole bunch of pictures of naked women. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![drhess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@drhess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drhess)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/10 "2004-05-03T14:31:09Z")
The government takeover of the Teamsters makes for interesting reading. I worked there under the reform president briefly. I assume there are still some locals of several unions that are mobbed connected; perhaps many depending on how you define it. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/11 "2004-05-14T06:58:13Z")
> [@drhess](#): > > The government takeover of the Teamsters makes for interesting reading. I worked there under the reform president briefly. I assume there are still some locals of several unions that are mobbed connected; perhaps many depending on how you define it. What exactly did you mean by “depending upon how you define it?” Also, I believe that the mod still has influence in Vegas. What is the official position as to when the mafia was “cleansed” from Vegas? I’ve had many friends who go to Vegas every year relate stories that “suggest” that the mafia might still have connections there. Has anyone written any sort of substancial book on the _recent_ history of the mafia in America? This seems like a subject that would do really good right now with all of the interest in the Sopranos. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/12 "2004-05-14T07:51:20Z")
[http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.ask.com%2Fweb%3Fq%3Dchinese%2Btriad%26o%3D0%26page%3D1&q=chinese+triad&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftm.wc.ask.com%2Fr%3Ft%3Dan%26s%3Da%26uid%3D0BDEF775BBBDF9804%26sid%3D116D5FCF707474A04%26qid%3D12058AF9EF9C234CBDBCE02E4C2AEAFB%26io%3D6%26sv%3Dza5cb0d8c%26o%3D0%26ask%3Dchinese%2Btriad%26uip%3D4509ffee%26en%3Dte%26eo%3D-100%26pt%3DAsian%2BStreet%2BGangs%2Band%2BOrganized%2BCrime%2Bin%2BFocus%26ac%3D3%26qs%3D16%26pg%3D1%26ep%3D1%26te\_par%3D103%26te\_id%3D%26u%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipsn.org%2Fasg08107.html&s=a&bu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipsn.org%2Fasg08107.html&qte=0&o=0](http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3a%2f%2fweb.ask.com%2fweb%3fq%3dchinese%2btriad%26o%3d0%26page%3d1&q=chinese+triad&u=http%3a%2f%2ftm.wc.ask.com%2fr%3ft%3dan%26s%3da%26uid%3d0BDEF775BBBDF9804%26sid%3d116D5FCF707474A04%26qid%3d12058AF9EF9C234CBDBCE02E4C2AEAFB%26io%3d6%26sv%3dza5cb0d8c%26o%3d0%26ask%3dchinese%2btriad%26uip%3d4509ffee%26en%3dte%26eo%3d-100%26pt%3dAsian%2bStreet%2bGangs%2band%2bOrganized%2bCrime%2bin%2bFocus%26ac%3d3%26qs%3d16%26pg%3d1%26ep%3d1%26te_par%3d103%26te_id%3d%26u%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.ipsn.org%2fasg08107.html&s=a&bu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ipsn.org%2fasg08107.html&qte=0&o=0) There are more nefarious gangs to worry about. While the Mafia may be involved in criminal activities, and some of the dealings are affecting innocents, for the most part the only way you get hurt by the Mafia is to screw them over. If you get into business with them, you pretty well know what you’re getting into. Just hold up your end of the bargain, no matter what it changes to. Otherwise, stay out. They don’t force you into it. Not a “mobster” but I’ve seen how you can be associated with them without being a crimelord. And if you are associated, you’re hands-off if you don’t fuck up. The Triad on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/13 "2004-05-14T16:04:20Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > While the Mafia may be involved in criminal activities, and some of the dealings are affecting innocents, for the most part the only way you get hurt by the Mafia is to screw them over. Organized crime is a billion dollar industry. Where do you think that money is coming from? Stock market manipulation and other frauds take billions of dollars directly out of the pockets of “civilians”. Outright crime like car theft and credit card fraud is preying on innocent people. The pilfering of pension funds, shakedowns of legitimate businesses, and infiltration of unions hurt people indirectly. So does the vice activity, which affects quality of life for folks who don’t participate. The Mafia is not some secret club whose nefarious activity exists only within it’s own world. Stories like the Godfatehr and the Sopranos never show the real truth, that the business these folks are in is victimizing people. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/14 "2004-05-14T16:29:01Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#): > > Also, I believe that the mod still has influence in Vegas. What is the official position as to when the mafia was “cleansed” from Vegas? I’ve had many friends who go to Vegas every year relate stories that “suggest” that the mafia might still have connections there. Has anyone written any sort of substancial book on the _recent_ history of the mafia in America? This seems like a subject that would do really good right now with all of the interest in the Sopranos. Mob books are one of the hottest genre’s in non-fiction. First person tell-alls or biographies of noted figures are the most popular. For a good “recent” history I’d suggest “Born to Steal: When the Mafia Hit Wall Street” or “Cigar City Mafia.” If you’re not strictly interested in the Italian mob, then Molano’s “Loyal Soldiers in the Cocaine Kingdom” is a great read, as is Friedman’s “Red Mafia: How the Russian Mob has Invaded America.” I don’t think there’s ever been an “official” proclamation that Vegas was mob-free, although that’s an image the tourism folks would certainly like to popularize. The local media suggests that [organized crime is still very much a problem in Las Vegas](http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/commentary/2004/apr/30/516782598.html). ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/15 "2004-05-14T17:59:29Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#): > > What exactly did you mean by “depending upon how you define it?” Depending on how you want to define “many.” > [@](#): > > Also, I believe that the mod still has influence in Vegas. Dude, they got a lot of power on this board, but once you get off, it’s really not as much as they’d want you to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/16 "2004-05-14T19:00:35Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > I have a couple second cousins (scumbags) who are up to their eyeballs in La Cosa Nostra in Philadelphia … or were anyway, until the Feds got them, last year. It would seem to me, if I were to base this only on the number of people I know who say that they have a relative of some degree in the “Mafia”, that there are approximately 140 million mafia members in the greater Chicagoland area alone 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/17 "2004-05-14T19:06:03Z")
If you’re interested in something other than the usual New York angle, try reading some of George Anastasia’s books on the Philly/South Jersey scene. He covers the mob beat for the Philadelphia Inquirer, and has written 4 or 5 non-fiction books. In large part, the locals have degenerated, but they’re definitely still around, and if you spend much time in South Philly you WILL know they’re there. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/18 "2004-05-14T19:38:20Z")
> [@Ryan Mahoney](#): > > It would seem to me, if I were to base this only on the number of people I know who say that they have a relative of some degree in the “Mafia”, that there are approximately 140 million mafia members in the greater Chicagoland area alone 😉 Because, of course, no two people could possibly be related to the _same_ mafia member. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/19 "2004-05-14T23:25:39Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > Mob books are one of the hottest genre’s in non-fiction. First person tell-alls or biographies of noted figures are the most popular. For a good “recent” history I’d suggest “Born to Steal: When the Mafia Hit Wall Street” or “Cigar City Mafia.” If you’re not strictly interested in the Italian mob, then Molano’s “Loyal Soldiers in the Cocaine Kingdom” is a great read, as is Friedman’s “Red Mafia: How the Russian Mob has Invaded America.” > > I don’t think there’s ever been an “official” proclamation that Vegas was mob-free, although that’s an image the tourism folks would certainly like to popularize. The local media suggests that [organized crime is still very much a problem in Las Vegas](http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/commentary/2004/apr/30/516782598.html). I read your link concerning the Israeli mob and it almost argues against my hypothesis. That’s because if the Italian mob still had much influence then you would think that they would be taking aggressive actions to protect their “turf”. Maybe the government could make a “secret” deal with the Italian mob (or maybe they have) to back off the RICO prosecutions (such as what common in the 80’s and early 90’s) **in exchange** for the Italian syndicate keeping out (or at least combatting) other less desirable gangs. Perhaps they could even play a role in combatting Al Qaida and other terrorist organizations, by useing their contacts to monitor suspicious activity. I have read that during WWII that the Italian mob was “enlisted” by the US. government to help keep an eye out for German saboteurs and U-boats (especially because of their influence on the New Jersey docks). Perhaps, we could give the “Italian mob” a monopoly of sorts, under the theory that the evil that you know is better than that which you don’t… ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-of-a-factor-is-the-mafia-today-in-america/242956/20 "2004-05-14T23:38:50Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > Organized crime is a billion dollar industry. Where do you think that money is coming from? Stock market manipulation and other frauds take billions of dollars directly out of the pockets of “civilians”. Outright crime like car theft and credit card fraud is preying on innocent people. The pilfering of pension funds, shakedowns of legitimate businesses, and infiltration of unions hurt people indirectly. So does the vice activity, which affects quality of life for folks who don’t participate. > > The Mafia is not some secret club whose nefarious activity exists only within it’s own world. Stories like the Godfatehr and the Sopranos never show the real truth, that the business these folks are in is victimizing people. A most excellent rebuttal. I thought I had a point in there, but the light of day has pretty much shown it was weak post. (Sorry hampsters) But I still say the Triads are worse. Not by much maybe, but still worse.