# How much pain does a severed fish feel, and for how long?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 21, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473 "2013-11-21T21:27:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/1 "2013-11-21T21:27:05Z")
When my grandfather came back from fishing with a live red snapper, my grandmother would throw it into the half-filled bathtub. When she was ready to cook it, she opened its mouth and poured “schnapps” into it. She did this to lessen the pain when she cut its head off.
So can we quantify the amount of pain a fish feels when it’s decapitated? And how long does it hurt before the sweet relief of death? And does “schnapps” really help?
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### Author:  [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/2 "2013-11-21T22:02:44Z")
No, but [clove oil](http://users.jyu.fi/~jpirhon/clove%20oil.htm) can be used as a fish anesthetic and can improve the eating quality of the fish.
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### Author:  [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/3 "2013-11-22T00:05:23Z")
thank crom this was about an actual fish and not the euphemism I first expected.
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### Author:  [@Fluke\_Starbucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fluke_Starbucker)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/4 "2013-11-22T12:59:45Z")
I’ve always heard and read that fish feel no pain. There’s some scientific basis to it, although no one will make a claim beyond all doubt. The schnaaps maybe placated grandma a bit, but really - she poured it into the wrong mouth.
I suppose a straight doper could take two fish and decapitate them side-by-side after pouring schnaaps into just one of their mouths to see if there’s any discernable difference, but it really seems like a waste of schnaaps to me.
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/5 "2013-11-22T14:47:34Z")
Moved Cafe Society --\> GQ.
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### Author:  [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/6 "2013-11-22T14:56:48Z")
Pain is part of qualia and thus it’s very difficult to say what does and doesn’t experience pain.
How much pain does a person feel when their head is cut off? Not very much. Or if it is a lot of pain, it isn’t for very long. Which has to count for something, eh?
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/7 "2013-11-22T15:05:06Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the case that pouring alcohol into the mouth of a fish actually caused it more discomfort/distress - because it’s going to come into contact with the gills.
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### Author:  [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/8 "2013-11-22T16:35:22Z")
Honestly, imagine someone pouring malt liquor in your face/eyes/nose, and then, after giving it a minute to 'take effect", they chop your head off.
Probably be less painful if they just cut your head off first.
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### Author:  [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/9 "2013-11-22T20:34:35Z")
Nitpick: Malt liquor is not the same as schnapps.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/10 "2013-11-22T20:37:37Z")
> **[Do Fish Feel Pain? The Debate Continues](https://www.livescience.com/37921-do-fish-feel-pain-fish-pain.html)**
>
> Some experts say fish feel no real pain, but others rebuke those findings.
> [@](#):
>
> Do fish feel pain? The question is as old as angling itself, but it has never been answered definitively.
>
> A recent study now concludes that fish lack the necessary pain receptors in their brains to experience pain the way humans and other animals do.
>
> While fish have nociceptors — sensory receptors that respond to physically damaging objects and events by sending warning signals to the brain — these receptors don’t function in the same way in fish as they do in humans, according to the study’s authors.
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### Author:  [@misling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misling)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/11 "2013-11-22T20:46:02Z")
I’m always a bit skeptical about claims like “fish don’t feel pain” - it’s so convenient for us fish-eaters.
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### Author:  [@kaltkalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaltkalt)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/12 "2013-11-22T22:59:44Z")
I’m pretty confident that all chordates with backbones and brains and nerves and such can register pain. It’s a negative stimuli that keeps such creatures from harming themselves. However, if they’re not self aware (i.e. can’t pass the ‘mirror test’) then they won’t be able to be consciously aware that they’re in pain (“ouch this hurts!”). Thus, it’s not immoral to cause them pain.
Conversely, causing pain to an animal that can pass the mirror test is just as immoral as causing pain to a human. There are some animals where the mirror test is inconclusive and probably not suited to them but they probably still have some degree of self-awareness. Dogs being a prime example. Causing those animals pain is just as immoral. Hopefully one day brain scans will sort all this out definitively.
That’s how I look at it, anyway.
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### Author:  [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/13 "2013-11-22T23:19:35Z")
Huh. I’ve been around plenty of critters too dumb to pass the mirror test who were nevertheless fully aware of the concept of “pain” and that they would prefer to avoid it at all costs.
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### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/14 "2013-11-22T23:48:52Z")
I’ve seen fisher(wo)men knock fish on the head before butchering them, to kill them or render them insensate. Makes sense to me - to do it humanely.
There’s a “Bizarre Foods” episode where Andrew Zimmern eats a LIVE fish. :eek: No, thanks.
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### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/15 "2013-11-22T23:57:18Z")
> [@kaltkalt](#):
>
> I’m pretty confident that all chordates with backbones and brains and nerves and such can register pain. It’s a negative stimuli that keeps such creatures from harming themselves. However, if they’re not self aware (i.e. can’t pass the ‘mirror test’) then they won’t be able to be consciously aware that they’re in pain (“ouch this hurts!”). Thus, it’s not immoral to cause them pain.
Well yes, according to a concatenation of very questionable (and widely questioned) theories about what counts as pain, what are the necessary or sufficient conditions for pain to occur, what counts as being conscious and what are the necessary or sufficient conditions for consciousness, whether the notion of _unconscious pain_ makes any sense, and what counts as moral or immoral.
> [@kaltkalt](#):
>
> Hopefully one day brain scans will sort all this out definitively.
Well they won’t, not unless the unresolved conceptual issues I have already alluded to (and probably others too) are also sorted out.
Incidentally, I am with those who are saying that pouring schnapps down a fish’s throat first is likely to cause it a lot more suffering than just cutting its head off quickly (assuming fish really are capable of suffering, which seems like a reasonable default assumption to me). I very much doubt that a fish’s membranes, normally constantly bathed in water, are able to stand up to alcohol damage to the extent that a land animal’s are. Furthermore, even humans have to get used to strong liquor, and tend to find it distinctly unpleasant at first. I think it would be cruel to force schnapps on a dog, let alone a fish.
Incidentally, isn’t the red snapper a sea fish? If so, it is not going to be at all comfortable in a bathtub of tap water either.
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### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/16 "2013-11-23T00:06:49Z")
_Missed edit window:_
The answers to the OP’s questions are:
No, we can’t quantify it. Somewhere from zero to lots.
If it hurts at all, we have no real idea for how long. Indeed, we have no very reliable idea about how long the pain of decapitation lasts even for humans (but probably not very long).
For a fish, schnapps probably makes the ordeal (if there is one at all) a good deal worse.
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### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/17 "2013-11-23T00:22:51Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#):
>
> I’ve seen fisher(wo)men knock fish on the head before butchering them, to kill them or render them insensate. Makes sense to me - to do it humanely.
>
> There’s a “Bizarre Foods” episode where Andrew Zimmern eats a LIVE fish. :eek: No, thanks.
An aside: Not long ago, there was a “Family Circus” cartoon where Mommy and the kids were all coming out of a public aquarium, and the children were all in tears. The caption: “A big fish ate a little fish.” That’s nature for you.
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### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/18 "2013-11-23T00:25:43Z")
To expand further on the relevance of brain scans, fMRI evidence has, of course, shown that [a salmon is capable of empathizing with humans, even after it is dead [PDF]](http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.vassar.edu%2Fabbaird%2Fabout%2Fpublications%2Fpdfs%2Fbennett_salmon.pdf&ei=v_KPUqmLMYnFswbwxYHADQ&usg=AFQjCNHlieOd92zgVZLCXoyvLvQ8JayTVA&bvm=bv.57127890,d.Yms&cad=rja).
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### Author:  [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/19 "2013-11-23T03:02:46Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The salmon measured approximately 18 inches long, weighed 3.8 lbs, and was not alive at the time of scanning. It is not known if the salmon was male or female, but given the post-mortem state of the subject this was not thought to be a critical variable…Foam padding was placed within the head coil as a method of limiting salmon movement during the scan, but proved to be largely unnecessary as subject motion was exceptionally low.
_snerk_
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### Author:  [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pain-does-a-severed-fish-feel-and-for-how-long/674473/20 "2013-11-23T03:10:44Z")
I have never been decapitated but I once experienced a shock up my spine that knocked me out for a minute. Never knew what hit me.
Notwithstanding various apocryphal tales about what happens shortly after decapitation, I would find it hard to believe that consciousness would continue past the severance of the spinal cord if it doesn’t even persist when hitting a bump while riding a snow saucer. IANAD, just my $0.02.
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