# How much pressure does the MLBPA put on FA to accept top $$$ **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 8, 2010, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883 "2010-11-08T07:28:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/21 "2010-11-11T02:38:26Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > …some one for believing an ESPN broadcast(Who is among probably among the greatest actual authority on the behind the scenes of baseball). Just to add: I’m not questioning the accuracy of ESPN (although they’re not always right). Nor am i saying that the person in question shouldn’t have believed ESPN. If anything, i’m simply questioning his memory of what he says he heard, and would like to see the story for myself to determine whether his recollection coincides with the facts. Pretty simple, really. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/22 "2010-11-11T02:53:11Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Players have the right to play with a team for less money if they choose . The players league has no authority and is not involved in the negotiations. It has happened . Exactly. The Player’s Association only gets involved if the player gives up money under an existing contract. A new contract is a new contract and if a player is willing to play for less than a previous contract, that’s the player’s business. For instance, the Mets signed Mike Jacobs this year for $900K; the previous year he had earned $3.275 million with Kansas City. The Players Association didn’t care, because they were separate contracts. Sometimes, they will allow a contract to be restructured, as long as the player doesn’t give up any money. Bobby Bonilla contract with the Mets, for instance: they had him agree to defer payment for ten years. Since he was getting the same amount of money (plus interest), the Players Association let it happen. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/23 "2010-11-11T03:10:26Z")
The other reason (i.e. more likely) is htat hte average fan couldn’t pick Mike Jacobs out of a line-up. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/24 "2010-11-11T03:22:01Z")
[QUOTE=wolfman] IF you are going to appeal to your own authority as a long time watcher, [/QUOTE] I was stating my observations, not reporting them as gospel fact. That’s why I stated that it was my observation as a long term baseball follower, and what I **believed** , rather than just saying “This has never happened.” As has been pointed out, I cannot prove a negative in a case like this. If someone wants to make the claim that union pressure happens, it’s up to him to bring the evidence, not make a vague claim that he heard it once on a radio show at some unspecified time. I wasn’t taking a shot at ESPN; since I’ve not been provided with any evidence of what their commentators said, it’s impossible for me to comment on ESPN’s accuracy. > [@etv78](#): > > The other reason (i.e. more likely) is htat hte average fan couldn’t pick Mike Jacobs out of a line-up. Well, the main reason is Jacobs’s market value was also legitimately a hell of a lot lower. When he signed with Kansas City for over $3 million a year he was coming off a 32-homer season. When he signed with the Mets he was coming off a 19-homer season and his future potential was clearly not what the Royals had thought. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/25 "2010-11-11T04:17:00Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Yeah Ellis, what are you doing giving credibility to people who work for an organization that has the largest MLB information gathering network in the world, and who daily talk to people who spend their entire lives being as informed as is possible about the game of baseball, an origination that has revenue depending on reliability, and is has a great deal on the line behind their reports. > I mean there is a guy on a message board “Who has been following baseball for a long time” who hasn’t heard of it, what more do you want? I trust an anonymous guy on a message board far more than I trust sports talk radio idiots. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/26 "2010-11-11T07:40:53Z")
I clearly remember them talking at length about union pressure in regards to a free agent contract. _However_, it could very well have been a hypothetical debate that got sparked by the A-Rod trade thing. I don’t remember any specifics largely because I’m not a baseball fan. I think we could prove a negative in this case. Is there any example from the last decade or two of a market-setting (highest paid at his position) free agent taking less money than was offered somewhere else? All we need is one example to disprove my hazy memory… ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/27 "2010-12-15T00:30:21Z")
To put a cherry on this thread, looks like Cliff Lee gave us a definitive answer: The union puts zero pressure on players to take the most money. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/28 "2010-12-15T00:36:32Z")
From what I’ve read, the Phillies offered more money per year than any other team. So while Lee isn’t helping other players argue for more years, he is helping them argue for a higher salary per year. Perhaps Lee plans to get another contract or an extension when this one ends, which could give him both the highest amount of total money and the most money per year. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/29 "2010-12-15T01:04:15Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > To put a cherry on this thread, looks like Cliff Lee gave us a definitive answer: The union puts zero pressure on players to take the most money. If the 6th year of the contract vests, I believe Lee will actually make more money per-season with the Phillies than he would have with the Yankees. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/30 "2010-12-15T14:18:51Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > If the 6th year of the contract vests, I believe Lee will actually make more money per-season with the Phillies than he would have with the Yankees. Plus, he doesn’t have to play for the Yankees. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/31 "2010-12-15T14:33:07Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > To put a cherry on this thread, looks like Cliff Lee gave us a definitive answer: The union puts zero pressure on players to take the most money. Assuming Lee accepted less money, this proves nothing either way. Lee’s decision doesn’t prove or disprove that he received pressure from the MLBPA. Perhaps he received just a little bit of pressure but told them to go to hell. Without primary evidence we do not really know. [QUOTE=Carmady] Perhaps Lee plans to get another contract or an extension when this one ends, which could give him both the highest amount of total money and the most money per year. [/QUOTE] Lee is 32, so that’s unlikely; he is exceedingly unlikely to be nearly as good a pitcher when this contract is up. Of course that doesn’t mean he might not have a lot of self-confidence and whatnot. Unless Lee publicly explains his thought process in detail, and I don’t believe he has, we can’t really know why he signed with the Phillies. Maybe he thinks they’re the best of the teams that made him an offer. Maybe he wanted the most money from any city where the fans did not spit on his wife. Maybe he wanted to play somewhere he had played before, which includes Philadelphia but not New York. Maybe he really does think he’ll still be great six years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/32 "2010-12-15T14:39:01Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > If the 6th year of the contract vests, I believe Lee will actually make more money per-season with the Phillies than he would have with the Yankees. [Here’s how it works:](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5920625) > [@](#): > > Lee, 32, turned down substantial offers from the New York Yankees and Texas Rangers to reach agreement with the Phillies. His contract includes a $12.5 million buyout along with a $27.5 million option that vests if he pitches 200 innings in 2015 or 400 innings during the 2014-2015 seasons, sources said. If Lee pitches the maximum six years, he will earn a total of $135 million. The Yankees were supposedly offering $132 million over six years, with an option that could have taken their deal to $148 million over seven. The Rangers offered six years for $138 million, with a seventh year that could have taken it to $161 million, but some of that money was deferred. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/33 "2010-12-17T20:06:37Z")
Here’s a relevant quote from the MLBPA chief that makes it pretty clear that the union’s job is not to put pressure on players, but to make sure they have all the information they need to make an informed choice. from [Jon Heyman’s column in SI](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/12/17/remaining.free.agents/index.html?eref=writers#): > [@](#): > > The players union put zero pressure on Lee to choose or even consider the highest bidder (the Yankees). "Absolutely not,‘’ players union chief Michael Weiner said. "That’s just not our approach. We want players to make the best use of their right under the Basic Agreement … As long as a player makes an informed decision, we’re happy. There are non-economic considerations. The fact that Cliff took a deal that wasn’t top dollar isn’t a problem for us.‘’ Good for them. Their approach is 100 percent right. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/34 "2010-12-18T18:45:00Z")
Ordonez signed with the Tigers., 1 year 10 mill. He was reportedly offered more money and longer contract by others. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/35 "2010-12-18T18:59:15Z")
Kerry Wood evidently took significant less money to return to the Cubs. Like absurdly less money according to [reports](http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15897523046588418). If the MLBPA was gonna make a stink about a player taking less money, I assume it would be in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/36 "2010-12-18T19:43:25Z")
Thanks Pricciar! Lee definitely was making a “quality of life” decision (i.e. his son’s illness) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/37 "2011-01-28T15:39:11Z")
Mike & Mike revisited the issue this morning, refreshing my memory about the time they devoted practically an entire show to the topic. It was indeed the A-Rod deal to Boston. This morning they were talking about Antonio Cromartie’s comments regarding the NFL’s labor negotiation, and Greeny was saying how the union should impose a gag order on the players. A lawyer emailed in to explain that unions aren’t allowed to do that by law, and Greeny was confused because, as he said today, the MLBPA forced A-Rod to not take a lesser deal. After the break they read from an article I can’t specifically find, but it gave me plenty of search terms to find other articles about the same thing. Some disregard anything by ESPN as all hype, so here’s a relevant article from [Sports Illustrated](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/baseball/mlb/12/17/arod.contract.ap/): > [@](#): > > NEW YORK (AP) – The baseball players’ union got in the middle of the proposed Alex Rodriguez trade Wednesday, forcing the Red Sox and Rangers to seek another way to complete the blockbuster deal they had already agreed on. > > Boston and Texas said they settled on all the players involved in the trade. The Red Sox and A-Rod agreed to restructure the shortstop’s $252 million contract, Rangers owner Tom Hicks said. > > But in a rare move, the union intervened and rejected the agreement, changes that were needed before Texas could send the AL MVP to the Red Sox for Manny Ramirez. > > Commissioner Bud Selig set a 5 p.m. Thursday deadline for the trade to be completed. He might also go against the union and approve the restructuring, likely forcing the matter to arbitration. Specifically, A-Rod had agreed with the Red Sox to restructure his contract downward so that he’d be making less money. That’s what the union balked at. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/38 "2011-01-28T19:43:19Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > After the break they read from an article I can’t specifically find, but it gave me plenty of search terms to find other articles about the same thing. Some disregard anything by ESPN as all hype, so here’s a relevant article from [Sports Illustrated](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/baseball/mlb/12/17/arod.contract.ap/):Specifically, A-Rod had agreed with the Red Sox to restructure his contract downward so that he’d be making less money. That’s what the union balked at. That is distinctly different from pressuring a player to take a better monetary deal. They didn’t force Arod to take a lesser deal. They objected to him changing a deal that he already had agreed to. They didn’t want to start a precedent where teams would be able to renegotiate contracts with players who were say underperforming ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/39 "2011-01-28T23:43:10Z")
That’s picking the nittiest of nits. He agreed with **another team** to be traded to them with a restructuring of his deal. That’s quite a different thing than what you’re talking about, as it is functionally equivalent to a free agent deal. You wrote that they didn’t force him to take a lesser deal, but I think you meant better deal. But that’s exactly what they did by rejecting the trade to Boston. A-Rod never went to the Red Sox, but instead took better money with the Yankees. That seems to be exactly what the OP is asking about even though the “hometown discount” aspect wasn’t in play. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883/40 "2011-01-28T23:58:30Z")
It’s not picking nits in the eyes of the union, though. In baseball contracts are guaranteed. Usually, this helps out the player. If the union said yes to the A Rod deal it would have set a precedent that contracts can be negotiable. That’s not good for the players in general, even if it would have been good for one player. As said previously, the union does not care what a player does on the open market. The only time they would say anything is when a contract is already in force. They didn’t say anything to Cliff Lee for taking slightly less, they didn’t say anything to Kerry Wood for taking a lot less. But, they did say something to A Rod for trying to change an already agreed upon contract. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-pressure-does-the-mlbpa-put-on-fa-to-accept-top/559883.md?page=3)