# How much safer are modern cars compared to cars from 20 years ago **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 11, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921 "2018-12-11T00:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/41 "2018-12-11T19:54:15Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > Using the dubious hypothesis that 2 WAGs will equal knowledge, if as I think I heard, pickup trucks are less safe than cars, and if, as I think I heard, pickup truck sales are increasing, does this shed any light on the slower rate of safety of late? Check out the link of death rates in various specific models by IIHS above. It doesn’t appear pickups are less safe than cars, though each category spans a fairly wide and often overlapping range among particular models. The most obvious factors are size and luxury. In ‘mini 4 dr car’ category all are in a range of 80-100 deaths per million vehicle years throwing out one low outlier. In large 4 door cars it’s more spread out 18-45 throwing out one high outlier. In large pickups 17-70, 17-55 throwing out one high outlier, 17-39 lowest 14 out of 16 models. Large luxury cars 0-20, large luxury SUV’s only three models but highest is 9. The overall average is 30. Again the lower rates on luxury cars are presumably partly the clientele not only the vehicles, and that’s probably somewhat of a factor in large v small. There just doesn’t seem to be a systematic difference by type as in sedan, SUV, pickup. As was mentioned though, larger vehicles being part of the cause of higher death rates in smaller vehicles can’t be excluded. From a personal vehicle buying perspective that isn’t so relevant though. This is where it sometimes gets contentious I know in some internet debates I’ve seen, but I want to make sure all family members are driving vehicles that weigh at least 3500#'s or so. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/42 "2018-12-11T19:57:56Z")
Speaking as someone who drives a '98 Corolla every day, :eek: ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/43 "2018-12-11T20:08:44Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Interesting stats, **Voyager**. I admit my preconception was along the lines of this: > > Moreover, the table shows an INCREASE over the most recent 3 years, and no apparent consistent reduction since 09. What’s up with that? My personal thought is that at least some of the safety alerts and buzzers are a distraction, and may cause drivers to pay less attention, figuring the car is looking out for them. I suspect the answer there is distracted driving. The iPhone came out in 07 and smartphone ownership has skyrocketed since then. More kids are getting cell phones as well leading to built in distractions for people who weren’t great at paying attention to the road in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/44 "2018-12-11T20:18:12Z")
The truth is in almost every measurable way modern cars are better then older cars. Performance wise supercars of the 80s match normal cars today. Safety wise the cars are better built to higher standards with far more time and engineering put into making them safe. Economy wise the cars are more fuel efficient, use less materials and last far longer without regular maintenance. I can’t think of a single way that old cars are better then new cars. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/45 "2018-12-11T20:33:49Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > you think you can decide that for your passengers too? a) almost never have one and when I do its by their choice; just not that much into kidnapping as a recreational pastime b) if I do its my wife and she knows and accepts the risks just like when she climbs on the back of the Road Kow Any other problems in the universe I can solve while I’m at it? 😃 > [@Telemark](#): > > The problem is that your time is up much sooner in an old car. Some pretty catastrophic looking accidents are survivable in a modern car. But again, its a choice much like preferring a motorcycle; which I do as well. Heck I could avoid the whole issue and never leave the house and in certain conditions I will pick that. But considering the total number of miles I have in 1972 and earlier cars combined with the number of miles in newer (and really new) cars without a catastrophic accident I feel OK about it all. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/46 "2018-12-11T21:59:02Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Of course, I recognize that today’s cars are safer than cars from the 50s-60s - and even into the 70s-80s. My question concerns HOW MUCH safer. The OP asked about cars 20 yrs ago. > > Even if we use your 59 as the starting point, we see these fatalities for each 10 year period: > 59 5.17 > 69 5.04 > 79 3.34 > 89 2.17 > 99 1.55 > 09 1.15 > 17 1.16 > > The biggest drop was from 69-79, the time at which lap/shoulder belts and collapsible columns became standard, and the second highest between 79-89, when belt usage became mandated. I imagine there were likely other advances during those same periods - likely in crumple zones and airbags, improved brakes, and other areas. > > Where on that list do you perceive the reduction in fatalities related to improved crumple zones and airbags? I’m not arguing, I’m merely asking when you think those improvements occurred - and then interested in seeing if a reduction in fatalities corresponded. > > WRT the OP’s question re: the past 20 yrs, from 09 to 17 the reduction is .4 - much lower than any other 20 yr period. So yeah, the changes over the last 20 yrs HAVE helped, but not all that much. As others mentioned, I wouldn’t be surprised if smart phones drove up accident rates in the last decade, negating some of the safety benefits. Also the average car is ten years old, so a car accident in 2018 probably involves a 2008 car. Due to that I’d assume the safety and death statistics lag by a decade or more. If I buy a brand new 2018 car with tons of safety features that didn’t exist in 2008 and then I go out and get in an accident, the other car I hit will probably be closer to an 08 than an 18 model. It seems like improvements from 89 to 99 fatality rates show that the 1989 cars are an improvement over the 1979 cars. So we won’t know how well 2018 safety features work in general until 2030 or so. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/47 "2018-12-11T23:41:15Z")
Seriously, for more up-to-date stats, check out the insurance institute for highway safety, and its sister organization, the highway loss data institute. Here is the kind of work they do: Subaru Eyesight decreases pedestrian hits by ~35% compared to comparable Subaru’s without that feature: file:///C:/Users/N0069556/Downloads/hldi\_bulletin\_34.39.pdf > [@](#): > > This analysis found that Subaru vehicles equipped with EyeSight reduced pedestrian-related claim frequency by 35 percent compared to Subaru vehicles without EyeSight. When the vehicle series are modeled individually, all the series show reductions ranging from 18 to 57 percent, although only the Legacy and Outback are statistically significant. General Motors collision avoidance features reduce frequency of claims file:///C:/Users/N0069556/Downloads/hldi\_bulletin\_34.06.pdf they found reductions in claim frequency for vehicles equipped with several GM safety packages, including > [@](#): > > Forward Alerts Package > Forward Alerts/Automatic Braking Package > Side Alerts Package > HID Headlights > Steerable HID Headlights > IntelliBeam Headlights Early results for Honda Collision Avoidance Features are promising file:///C:/Users/N0069556/Downloads/hldi\_bulletin\_31.2.pdf > [@](#): > > This analysis examines insurance loss results for two Honda Accord collision avoidance systems: Forward Collision Warning (FCW) paired with a Lane Departure Warning (LDW) system and LaneWatch, a passenger side blind spot information system. The combined FCW/LDW system is associated with reductions in claim frequency for all 5 coverage types examined…Only [some of these] were statistically significant… > LaneWatch also shows reductions in physical damage claim frequencies, but the declines are not significant. There currently are not enough data to produce stable estimates for LaneWatch’s effect on injury claim frequencies, but two of the three injury coverages indicate reductions. This represents the first HLDI evaluation of the effectiveness of crash avoidance systems on high-volume non-luxury vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/48 "2018-12-11T23:52:31Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Seriously, for more up-to-date stats, check out the insurance institute for highway safety, and its sister organization, the highway loss data institute. Here is the kind of work they do: > > Subaru Eyesight decreases pedestrian hits by ~35% compared to comparable Subaru’s without that feature: > file:///C:/Users/N0069556/Downloads/hldi\_bulletin\_34.39.pdf > General Motors collision avoidance features reduce frequency of claims > file:///C:/Users/N0069556/Downloads/hldi\_bulletin\_34.06.pdf > they found reductions in claim frequency for vehicles equipped with several GM safety packages, including > Early results for Honda Collision Avoidance Features are promising > file:///C:/Users/N0069556/Downloads/hldi\_bulletin\_31.2.pdf Why are you citing your C drive? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/49 "2018-12-12T00:48:06Z")
There’s no empirical evidence linking phone use to increased accidents. Cell phone and texting [bans](https://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/49/8/5) do not produce any decline in crashes. Obviously, there are any number of accidents or deaths associated with phone-related distraction, but overall, the IIHS [speculates](https://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/49/8/1) that cell phone use simply replaces other distractions. Interestingly, the article at my second link mentions that while dialing the phone is associated with a slightly higher risk of bad events, talking on a cell phone is associated with a slightly lower risk. Neither effect was statistically significant, though. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/50 "2018-12-12T01:14:16Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > There’s no empirical evidence linking phone use to increased accidents. Cell phone and texting … do not produce any decline in crashes. … That’s not quite true. > **[Driver Cellphone and Texting Bans in the United States: Evidence of...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4001674/)** > > Almost all U.S. states have laws limiting drivers’ cellphone use. The evidence suggests that all-driver bans on hand-held phone conversations have resulted in long-term reductions in hand-held phone use, and drivers in ban states reported higher ... \*However, it is not clear at this point that laws limiting drivers’ cellphone use are having the same beneficial effects. A review of the research on the effects of driver cellphone and texting bans found mixed results. As discussed throughout the review, there is considerable unsettled evidence with regard to the patterns of drivers’ phone use or the effects of use on crash risk. Without this information, it is difficult to develop reasonable hypotheses about the expected effects of cellphone bans on crashes, or to choose appropriate crash outcome measures. Evaluations of cellphone and texting bans also must grapple with substantial methodological and data-related challenges that many of the reviewed studies were unable to overcome. One of the strongest studies found no reductions in collision claim rates associated with all-driver hand-held bans in four states [Trempel et al., 2011], despite evidence of reduced hand-held cellphone use in three of the states [McCartt et al., 2010]. A study of texting bans using an analogous approach found modest but significant increases in collision claim rates in three states and no change in a fourth state [HLDI, 2010]. Other studies that appeared to have important limitations found reductions from bans [e.g., Abouk, Adams, 2013; Kolko, 2009; Nikolaev et al., 2010]. The findings of studies without appropriate crash measures and controls cannot be relied on. Thus, even as states increasingly are enacting laws limiting drivers’ phone use, it is unclear the laws will have the desired effect on crashes.\* So studies are mixed, but mostly, show some reduction. However, and this is very important, the studies compare how effective\* Laws\* are that ban Cell Phones and texting. Here is CA, we do have such laws, but they are flouted constantly. So, I guess you can say that _such laws_ have a mixed and minor effect on reducing accidents. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/51 "2018-12-12T01:57:28Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > There’s no empirical evidence linking phone use to increased accidents. Cell phone and texting [bans](https://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/49/8/5) do not produce any decline in crashes. Obviously, there are any number of accidents or deaths associated with phone-related distraction, but overall, the IIHS [speculates](https://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/49/8/1) that cell phone use simply replaces other distractions. Interestingly, the article at my second link mentions that while dialing the phone is associated with a slightly higher risk of bad events, talking on a cell phone is associated with a slightly lower risk. Neither effect was statistically significant, though. I heard, perhaps on NPR, that anti texting laws actually backfire because when texting was legal, people would hold their phone up at eye level and text. But now that its illegal, people hide their phones near their lap to text so a cop won’t see them, which means their eyes are off the road. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/52 "2018-12-12T03:35:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Yeah, my grandson’s carseat is a hell of a lot better than the ones we had for our kids, and those were better than the ones I had when I was a kid - like nothing, not even a seat belt. > I don’t know if the old car seats were torture devices, but they were much easier to get out of, and were not used for nearly as long. The “car seat” we had hooked over the front seat, which still went all the way across. Until we could hold our heads up, we used a car bed which was basically a bassinet used to keep the baby in one place if the only adult was driving. I remember my dad driving, and my mom having my brother or sister on her lap. :eek: I cringe at the very thought! But that’s how things were done back then. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/53 "2018-12-12T03:53:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So studies are mixed, but mostly, show some reduction. > > However, and this is very important, the studies compare how effective\* Laws\* are that ban Cell Phones and texting. > > Here is CA, we do have such laws, but they are flouted constantly. So, I guess you can say that _such laws_ have a mixed and minor effect on reducing accidents. Interesting. I was surprised that cell phone use was not considered responsible for the increase in accidents. But I suppose they have been around long enough so that everyone who feels they have to yak on a phone has been doing it for ages. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/54 "2018-12-12T04:46:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Interesting. I was surprised that cell phone use was not considered responsible for the increase in accidents. But I suppose they have been around long enough so that everyone who feels they have to yak on a phone has been doing it for ages. Well, cell phone use is a cause of more accidents. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/55 "2018-12-12T05:48:13Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > C… > As was mentioned though, larger vehicles being part of the cause of higher death rates in smaller vehicles can’t be excluded. From a personal vehicle buying perspective that isn’t so relevant though. This is where it sometimes gets contentious I know in some internet debates I’ve seen, but I want to make sure all family members are driving vehicles that weigh at least 3500#'s or so. Just to be a contrarian :D: Consider a 1990 Honda Civic. Chrysler made a leBaron convertible that was a very large car. The laws of physics would suggest that the Civic would not fare well in a collision with the leBaron. We were in the Civic. The leBaron hit us head on. We walked away. To be fair, so did the young men in the leBaron… though to this day i get the shakes when I recall what the passenger said: “I hadn’t been buckled in… then we got to a curvy stretch of road and something told me I ought to fasten that seatbelt”. :eek::eek::eek: That Civic even lived to fight another day - the 4-car pileup 5 years later was just too much for it! We found an interesting design feature though: my husband was hit from behind - twice - and found himself basically lying flat on his back in the driver’s seat: the seatback had fallen backward almost completely flat. Supposedly that was a design feature to help protect the passenger ( the car did not have airbags). In any case, he walked away from THAT one as well - an accident that totalled 3 out of the 4 cars involved. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/56 "2018-12-12T05:57:26Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Why are you citing your C drive? Because i messed up. I’d downloaded those articles, they all came from here: > **[Highway safety topics](https://www.iihs.org/topics)** > > Explore key highway safety issues ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/57 "2018-12-12T07:16:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, cell phone use is a cause of more accidents. I was speaking of the recent spike. Cellphone usage definitely leads to lots of accidents, but it seems that the recent spike is due to more people on the road. Unemployed people drive less. I’m retired, and I sure drive a lot less than I used to, and so am safer. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/58 "2018-12-12T13:17:53Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Just to be a contrarian :D: Consider a 1990 Honda Civic. … Or maybe a 98 Civic? I think I know where one can be had for cheap! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/59 "2018-12-12T14:48:34Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I heard, perhaps on NPR, that anti texting laws actually backfire because when texting was legal, people would hold their phone up at eye level and text. But now that its illegal, people hide their phones near their lap to text so a cop won’t see them, which means their eyes are off the road. I still see idiots nearly every day holding their cell phones up and out about a foot and a half in front of their face, yakking at it in speaker mode, while they drive. Why they can’t actually set it down and drive normally, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921/60 "2018-12-13T16:23:03Z")
Crumple zones have been around for more than 20 years. Ditto Airbags, ABS, etc. They have of course all improved since then and cars are certainly safer, but I would have no fears getting into a 20 year old car with these features. The safety features of late seem to center around inattentive idiot/cellphone using drivers. Which is fine I guess, but breeds poor drivers imho. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-safer-are-modern-cars-compared-to-cars-from-20-years-ago/825921.md?page=4)