The deal with Teslas, at least in part, is that you’d use your own vehicle during downtime. If I’m going to be sitting at home all day, I can put my regular car to work and “profit”.
There is a car rental service call Turo that relies on individual car owners to provide their cars for others to rent, except of course these are not self-driving.
From what I have read, this is true. Depreciation, gas, etc. ought to be reflected in money the drivers make, but I read a lot of complaints that it is not.
Naively, the Uber model should have two layers of profit (Uber and the drivers) while Waymo can collapse these into one (Waymo), but I suspect the profit margins are more similar than not.
No factual idea, but I could see Tesla offering a common dispatch solution for a monthly service fee. It would give the business reoccurring revenue with minimal capital overhead. It would also let them get another app on your phone and a direct connection to the customer.
I see Waymos all the time while I’m taking my morning walk (saw one yesterday). They do go to the airport here (LAX), so they must go some distance to take passengers to their destinations. I see them all over the Westside – not just in my LAX-adjacent neighborhood – I’m guessing they have a relatively wide range here? SF is tiny compared to LA using sq ft as a measurement.
ETA: There is a car on my block (small white compact) with its spare tire tied to its roof. I’ve finally stopped doing a doubletake when I see it. But I’ve seen enough stopped Waymos now to know that the black whateveritis on top spins and changes color when it’s waiting/picking up/dropping off passengers.
You live in my old stomping grounds. I grew up in Mar Vista. I see them all over when I visit my step-mom in Culver City.
My grandmother lived in Mar Vista. We were on the other side of Culver Blvd.
Based on the maps shown here, Waymo’s service areas look pretty big.
To clarify my question: Apparently there are a number of cities that allow the operation of Waymo self-driving cars, which provide a similar service to human-driven taxis, and so one can (mostly) meaningfully compare safety records between those self-driving cars and taxis.
But are there any places that allow people to own their own self-driving cars, and use them in the same ways that most people use their own cars? This would allow comparison of safety records to normal car usage. And I can’t imagine why a city would allow self-driving taxis but not self-driving personal vehicles… but it’s apparently so?
If you went through all the permitting hoops (California) or paid off the right politicians (Texas), you could probably get permission to operate your own self-driving vehicle.
There’s not some blanket approval for self-driving taxis anywhere. Companies are equipped to jump through the hoops, and they have the insurance to cover it. Individuals, not so much.
AFAIK, there are no fully self-driving vehicles a private citizen can buy. If Waymo would sell you one of theirs that’d be different. But they don’t.
Yet.
Teslas with the full max autonomous software load are almost there. But not yet.
It’s still state-by-state, but I think there are a few that allow it (assuming you can get a car).
This article from Sep-2024 says:
- 19 states allow AV
- 17 states don’t have laws either way
- 12 states allow AV for testing only (including DC)
- 3 states have special cases
Some examples:
- California allows AVs to be deployed as a pilot program, but only my manufacturers.
- Arizona requires you to notify the DOT.
- Illinois doesn’t have any statues other than disallowing municipalities from passing restrictions.
There are also 3 states that restrict sales of AVs independent of operation.
Here is an interactive map that summarizes each state’s statues.
Lack of car insurance? I can’t imagine there are a lot of insurance companies out there offering self-driving car insurance as a standard package. Waymo, I assume, has some sort of special corporate deal, and plenty of investor money to spend on what I assume is a much inflated rate.
That’s certainly an issue, but i think the bigger issue is that there isn’t a self driving vehicle an individual can drive. I don’t think the Tesla “autopilot” has been approved for autonomous driving anywhere. (And based on my experience in my friend’s car, i certainly hope it isn’t.)
On the other hand, supervised cruise control, that does lane minding and distance keeping is legal in all the US, i think.
Note - Tesla’s AV software is Full Self Driving (FSD). Autopilot is their name for driver-assist features.
And Teslas are driving autonomously in very limited amounts in Austin, TX.
Obligatory Tesla hater, the robotaxi never ended up being truly unsupervised and seems to be winding down as opposed to scaling up. They’re nowhere close to Waymo.
Yep. you or I can’t buy insurance for our self-driving car.
I’d expect Waymo to self-insure for all forms of liability for one of their cars crashing. They have pockets far deeper than a few accidents can dent.
A side issue not exactly connected to liability is that Waymo has a staff of “car helpers” who work online to assist cars that have become confused / stuck and need some human brain power to decide what to do to extricate themselves. A handy feature at this stage of the game.
If Waymo was to sell me one of their cars for my private use, I’d like that helper service to be included. How exactly that would work if I sent my car out to turn tricks solicit rides for fares in competition with Waymo’s service is an interesting quesiton.
Elektrek is the site that tends to run articles derogaory of Tesla, while Teslarati is the opposite, spinning every bit of tesla news positively. IMHO the truth lies somewhere inbetween. That linked article is a good example, the “accident rate 19 times higher” seems alarming, but the few accidents cited in a parallel article had, as I mentioned, indicated most were extremely low speed, or inparking lots single vehicle (curbs?) the sort humans don’t report. I would think an interesting comparison, too, would be number of airbag deployments, number of injuries requiring hospitalization, etc. for autonomous vehicles.
The problem with all these systems is adaptibility to bad weather or messy road conditions. I don’t know how much more robust lidar would be in messy conditions - not just heavy rain or fog (or heavy snowfall) but heavy road spray blocking the view, etc. (Something I encountered the other day) For a taxi service, avoiding service in messy conditions may be an option (not a good one) but most people do not have the option of staying home in mildly inclement messy weather, especially if they paid big bucks for their own vehicle.
I don’t trust my FSD where there may be ice patches - I have no intention of finding out the hard way whether it can handle them. Waymo, as others mention, sticks to speed limits. Your own personal vehicle, you probably want to keep up with traffic (consistently faster than the actual limit) and don’t want the people around you to get annoyed and blame you.
Oh really?
Driverless Waymo Car Kills Adored Neighborhood Cat, Kitkat
Kitkat, a neighborhood legend, has been killed by a Waymo. Fans of the adored feline are taking to social media to demand justice for Kitkat. The cat was a fixture at Randa’s Market in San Francisco. There is a growing memorial in front of the store. Driverless robocars like Waymo are controversial, and already the target of a lot of anger on the streets in San Francisco and other cities. Waymo said Kitkat darted underneath the driverless taxi and expressed their sympathies to the cat’s owner.
What if it’s a child next time?
Warning- disturbing content.
Yeah, sure.
As if it doesn’t happen to drivers 1,000,000 times more often.
And - the Waymo “object permanence” algorithm can be improved, while most people’s driving skills just get worse.
If a human child “darts underneath” a car, the odds are the child won’t fare well, no matter whether the car is driven by AI or a human.