# How much say does the father have in abortions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 2, 2011, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174 "2011-03-02T05:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/21 "2011-03-02T15:10:51Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Yet the man is still on the hook for full child support. If the woman’s choice is opposite the man’s, shouldn’t she have to sign a waiver saying that he doesn’t owe her anything financially because he voted against the decision? He owes the child, not the mother. He also agreed to be responsible for any potential child when he came. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/22 "2011-03-02T15:12:54Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > To get back on track - is there any country in the first world, where abortion on demand is legal, where the father has ANY say, married or not? According to Wikipedia, [some countries do require a husband’s consent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternal_rights_and_abortion) for a married woman to obtain an abortion. Most of the countries there are third-world, predominantly Muslim, or both; the big exceptions are South Korea and [Japan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Japan#Maternal_Health_Protection_Law). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/23 "2011-03-02T15:12:55Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > “Giving him a veto” is not the same thing as “making the choice his”. The law could be, for example, that both of them have veto power, so that the abortion would be legal only if both agree to it. In such a case, the choice would neither fully his nor fully hers. Yes it would. If he can stop an abortion by hinself, then it’s disingenuous to say that the decision is not fully his. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/24 "2011-03-02T15:14:19Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > ROTFLMAO! 😃 My cousin chased this guy around for years until she was able to get pregnent by him one drunkin night; then dumped his ass and refused to have an abortion. I can still recall the Christmas Eve when he demanded that she get an abortion while Christmas music was playing in the background. ☹ She verbally agreed (at the top of her lungs) to support the child without him. Sixteen years later the poor sap is still making his monthly payments. Good for her. The guy sounds like a huge douche. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/25 "2011-03-02T15:17:00Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > Although I am not in favour of allowing men to disavow their child support responsibility, the problem I have with this argument is that it sounds exactly like the anti-abortion people’s argument that “you agreed to the pregnancy when you had sex”. She assumed the risk of pregnancy, but made no commitment to how she would _deal_ with a pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/26 "2011-03-02T15:20:03Z")
Incidentally, another significant problem with giving an alleged sperm donor this kind of autonomy is that it would require some way to prove he was the one who impregnanted her. Some guy just _saying_ he’s the “father” is obviously not sufficient proof, and if she denies he’s the one, then where do you go from there? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/27 "2011-03-02T16:31:10Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > the problem I have with this argument is that it sounds exactly like the anti-abortion people’s argument that “you agreed to the pregnancy when you had sex”. Which, I’m sorry to say, is true. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/28 "2011-03-02T16:42:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Incidentally, another significant problem with giving an alleged sperm donor this kind of autonomy is that it would require some way to prove he was the one who impregnanted her. Some guy just _saying_ he’s the “father” is obviously not sufficient proof, and if she denies he’s the one, then where do you go from there? If they’re married, the husband is assumed to be the father, according to law. So it wouldn’t be inconsistent with the laws mentionned above giving the husband a veto power. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/29 "2011-03-02T16:43:01Z")
[Davis v.Davis](http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/cloning/davis_v_davis.htm) Divorcing couple. Wife wanted custody of frozen emnryos to carry them to term. Husband said no, he’d change his mind and didn’t want chldren with her. Wife said she would donate them to infertile women so they could carry them to term and keep the baby. Husband said no. State superior court agreed with hubby; embryos were destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/30 "2011-03-02T16:51:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > If they’re married, the husband is assumed to be the father, according to law. What law? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/31 "2011-03-02T16:52:16Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > [Davis v.Davis](http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/cloning/davis_v_davis.htm) > > Divorcing couple. Wife wanted custody of frozen emnryos to carry them to term. Husband said no, he’d change his mind and didn’t want chldren with her. Wife said she would donate them to infertile women so they could carry them to term and keep the baby. Husband said no. > > State superior court agreed with hubby; embryos were destroyed. Not really on point. This case does not involve a woman’s body. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/32 "2011-03-02T16:56:36Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Your poor cousin, so unable to avoid having unprotected sex with a crazy, apparently super-fertile (pregnant the first time eh?), baby-desiring woman. If only he had the power to choose who he sleeps with! If only condoms were cheap and widely available! > > Really, dude sounds like a class act. :rolleyes: Just like we say “Oh, the poor woman, so unable to avoid getting herself knocked up”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/33 "2011-03-02T17:10:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What law? A woman’s husband is the presumed father of her children. He’s got a few months to get a DNA test, otherwise he’s the legal father no matter who inseminated his wife. Obviously, pregnancy happens in a woman’s body. A father should have the same rights over his body that a woman has over her body. But a man can’t force a woman to have an abortion, nor can he force her not to have an abortion. In cases where an embryo or fetus is gestating inside a human body, the human rights of the human who is carrying the fetus must outweigh anyone else’s. Or, you could put it that both the father and the mother must decide together, and in the event of a tie, the tie-breaking vote goes to the mother. But this is exactly the same as leaving the decision up to the mother. In cases where an embryo or fetus is not gestating inside a human body, the genders of the legal parents are irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/34 "2011-03-02T17:23:04Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Wasn’t there a GD thread on this, like, last week? And the week before that, and the week before that, and the week before that… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/35 "2011-03-02T17:26:40Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Just like we say “Oh, the poor woman, so unable to avoid getting herself knocked up”. :rolleyes: Ever heard of rape? “Knocked up” isn’t the issue anyway. Assuming a risk of pregnancy does not equate to agreeing to carry a pregnancy to term. Both the man and the woman are making autonomous decisions about their own bodies. Once the man’s body stops being involved, he’s out of the equation. The woman gets to make decisions after pregnancy because her body is still involved. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/36 "2011-03-02T17:27:52Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > A woman’s husband is the presumed father of her children. Only after they’re born. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/37 "2011-03-02T17:46:36Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Wasn’t there a GD thread on this, like, last week? Is there ever NOT a thread on this topic? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/38 "2011-03-02T19:11:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Good for her. The guy sounds like a huge douche. I was just going to say that Si Amigo’s cousin sounds like a stalker who date _raped_ some poor guy. After all it sounds like she got a man drunk for the sole purpose of having sex with him. When a man does that to a woman he is called a rapist. He can be prosecuted and imprisoned. Ditto if he does that to another man. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Incidentally, another significant problem with giving an alleged sperm donor this kind of autonomy is that it would require some way to prove he was the one who impregnanted her. Some guy just _saying_ he’s the “father” is obviously not sufficient proof, and if she denies he’s the one, then where do you go from there? It’s possible to do a paternity test prenately. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What law? Common law presumes that a woman’s husband is the father of any children she gives birth too. The same presumption can be found in civil codes dating back to the Twelve Tables of Roman Law. This applys before birth as well since an unborn child can inheirit property from it’s deceased father’s estate even without a will and (if the parent’s were married) a DNA test. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/39 "2011-03-02T19:54:34Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I was just going to say that Si Amigo’s cousin sounds like a stalker who date _raped_ some poor guy. After all it sounds like she got a man drunk for the sole purpose of having sex with him. When a man does that to a woman he is called a rapist. He can be prosecuted and imprisoned. Ditto if he does that to another man. I didn’t see any allegation of rape. That’s ridiculous. Besides it sounds like they were both drunk. > [@](#): > > It’s possible to do a paternity test prenately. Not until well into the pregancy, and then only with an invasive procedure which is dangerous both to the woman and the fetus. > [@](#): > > Common law presumes that a woman’s husband is the father of any children she gives birth too. The key words there are “gives birth.” No birth = no paternity. A man can’t be a father unless and until there is a child. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/40 "2011-03-02T20:17:03Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Just like we say “Oh, the poor woman, so unable to avoid getting herself knocked up”. :rolleyes: What? Of course the woman could avoid getting knocked up. It’s just a crying shame the kid couldn’t avoid getting born. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174.md?page=3)