# How much say does the father have in abortions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 2, 2011, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174 "2011-03-02T05:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/61 "2011-03-05T10:13:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Bullshit. The issue is why women get a second chance to say they don’t want to have a kid but men don’t. No one wants to make a woman have an abortion or have the child. What we care about is the fact that the woman can have an abortion and therefore not have to support the child, but a man does not have any corresponding option. And the answer is: life’s unfair, suck it up. The simple fact that pregnancy occurs in a woman’s body gives her a higher level of control over the situation. If you don’t like that, don’t have sex with a woman unless you’re 100% sure of what she will do should a pregnancy occur. > [@](#): > > It’s not like most abortions are for medical reasons–they are because the women does not want to have a child to support. Women have an option to get out of support that men don’t, and many men find this unfair. Or because the woman doesn’t want to be pregnant. Pregnancy is not a benign condition, it is stressful physically and emotionally. Parenting is also an extremely successful and all-consuming endeavor. Financial concerns are certainly in the mix but it’s a mistake to presume that “support” is the primary motivator in women’s decisions to terminate pregnancies. And again, if men consider it unfair that women have the ultimate say over what occurs with their own bodies, well, that’s just tough. Come up with some better solution that neither cedes a woman’s control of her body or denies a child the support of both parents. Then you can talk about unfair decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/62 "2011-03-05T10:46:24Z")
What I don’t understand about the idea of males being able to ‘vote’ on an abortion is what happens when the father is unknown or unfindable. What is the woman can’t get a hold of the man? What if there are several possible fathers and she doesn’t know which of them is it? What if she doesn’t even find out she’s pregnant until 5 or 6 months in? What if she does find out earlier, but keeps it a secret until 5 or 6 months in? From what I understand, none of these situations are exceptionally unusual, and abortion is pretty time-sensitive. It seems like you’d end up with a lot of men who would feel that they were entitled to a say in the abortion decision, but didn’t get it. Would they get out of paying child support? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/63 "2011-03-05T17:15:10Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > And the answer is: life’s unfair, suck it up. The simple fact that pregnancy occurs in a woman’s body gives her a higher level of control over the situation. If you don’t like that, don’t have sex with a woman unless you’re 100% sure of what she will do should a pregnancy occur… Agreed, and we won’t have a better answer until somebody invents an artificial womb. And if a man want’s to have sex with women, but reallly, really doesn’t want to be on the hook for child suport he can always get a vasectomy. Yes, it’s unfair that the only male contraceptives are condoms or sterilization, but again that’s biology. Scientists are working on male pills or LARC and it’ll probally be available long before artificial wombs. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/64 "2011-03-05T19:03:04Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Bullshit. The issue is why women get a second chance to say they don’t want to have a kid but men don’t. No, the issue is what each gets to decide about their own body. It’s just that simple. The man’s choice ends when his body is no longer involved. The woman still has a choice after pregnancy because it still involves her body. This is very easy to understand if you try a little bit. > [@](#): > > What we care about is the fact that the woman can have an abortion and therefore not have to support the child, but a man does not have any corresponding option. Yes he does. He can choose not to put his sperm in someone else’s body. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/65 "2011-03-05T19:06:26Z")
What attitudes like **BigT’s** really amount to is a position that men should have no legal responsibility for their children, only women. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/66 "2011-03-05T21:22:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What attitudes like **BigT’s** really amount to is a position that men should have no legal responsibility for their children, only women. I don’t see it that way at all! (FTR I completely agree with BigT). All he’s saying is that women have a “second bite at decision apple” regarding the pregnancy. And to the person who said that “men should be more careful about who they put their sperm in”, shouldn’t women be more careful about who they ALLOW to put sperm in them? (and yes, rape IS NOT “allowing” men to put sperm in them) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/67 "2011-03-06T01:42:52Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I don’t see it that way at all! (FTR I completely agree with BigT). All he’s saying is that women have a “second bite at decision apple” regarding the pregnancy. Not really. They just have the ability to make the choice later than men. That’s not unfair. That’s dictated by biology. Biology isn’t fair. Men have full choice as long as their own bodies are involved. and so do women. Nothinmg is taken away from men because women can make the final choice later. > [@](#): > > And to the person who said that “men should be more careful about who they put their sperm in”, shouldn’t women be more careful about who they ALLOW to put sperm in them? (and yes, rape IS NOT “allowing” men to put sperm in them) Not to the same degree because they can terminate a pregnancy. In both cases, individuals are making choices about their own bodies, and their own bodies only. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/68 "2011-03-06T01:50:00Z")
Diogenes-An **involved** man has NO say in whether he becomes a father? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/69 "2011-03-06T02:17:14Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Diogenes-An **involved** man has NO say in whether he becomes a father? :dubious: Before the pregnancy total say. After the pregnancy, none. In the US anyway. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/70 "2011-03-06T02:33:29Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > Do you have a cite for the US importing “a lot” of sperm? It was my understanding that this was mostly within the States. I know that Denmark “export” sperm to Belgium (fertilization by an anonymous donor at a single woman’s request is forbidden in France, so women go to Belgium to have it done. A friend of mind who went through the procedure was told that the sperm would likely be Danish. Now, I wouldn’t know if it’s true in the USA also but anyway it let me wonder why there would be so many sperm donors in Denmark. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/71 "2011-03-06T02:38:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Where did this meme come from that men are constantly being accused of rape for having sex with drunk partners? Cite? > > As far as I know, it’s only rape if the other person is so incapacitated that they don’t know what’s happening or can’t physically say yes or no. I remember a thread, several years ago, stating that a US state (western coast, I think) had passed a law making a rape of having sex with a drunk partner (ensuing discussion of course about the situation where both are drunk). I don’t remember anything more, but somebody else might. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/72 "2011-03-06T03:04:06Z")
No. There is no law in any state that having sex with a drunk partner _per se_ is rape. There are statutes that call it rape if the person is incapicitated to the point that they can’t understand what’s going on, give consent or resist. There are statutes specifying rape if a substance is given to a victim without their knowledge. There are no statutes defining having sex with a partner who is merely intoxicated by their own choice - but not to the point of incapacitation - as rape. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/73 "2011-03-06T05:52:34Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I know that Denmark “export” sperm to Belgium (fertilization by an anonymous donor at a single woman’s request is forbidden in France, so women go to Belgium to have it done. A friend of mind who went through the procedure was told that the sperm would likely be Danish. > > Now, I wouldn’t know if it’s true in the USA also but anyway it let me wonder why there would be so many sperm donors in Denmark. It’s my understanding that the US pretty much handles its own supply and demand, and that occurs in Europe as well, but I could be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/74 "2011-03-06T06:11:57Z")
nm. Not feeding the trolls. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/75 "2011-04-12T11:42:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Good for her. The guy sounds like a huge douche. Not nearly enough of a douche, istm. If it had been me I would have fucked off and worked on a cruise ship or something for a while. No way I’m giving up a big chunk of my money for 18 years because I was tricked into an “agreement”. I couldn’t care less if I technically owe it to the kid and not her. And in the event that it dawned on me that I did want a child I would sue for full custody so I would actually have one, instead of just flushing my money down the toilet that is this woman. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/76 "2011-04-12T13:02:55Z")
The woman is irrelevant. You have an obligation to your child which you conceived of your own free will. And what makes you think you could successfully sue for full custody after abandoning the kid? ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/77 "2011-04-12T13:16:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes it would. If he can stop an abortion by hinself, then it’s disingenuous to say that the decision is not fully his. If the decision was fully his he would be able to force her to have an abortion against her will. Having a veto is only half the decision power – you are able to say “No” against a “Yes” but you are still unable to say “Yes” against a “No”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/78 "2011-04-12T13:27:44Z")
Having a veto is 100% of the decision power. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/79 "2011-04-12T13:36:02Z")
_Ipse dixit_. Move along, everyone. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174/80 "2011-04-12T13:50:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The woman is irrelevant. You have an obligation to your child which you conceived of your own free will. > > And what makes you think you could successfully sue for full custody after abandoning the kid? That was an either/or. If I wanted a child I would want to raise him. If I didn’t, I would leave, before she could file the paperwork. People, men and women alike, have decided they don’t want to raise their kids since the beginning of time. A kid whom I have no intention of raising is not getting my money. There’s plenty of people out there who want to adopt. If mom can’t do it without me, when she knows full well beforehand that is the case, then she should give it up. eta: that’s really in the best interest of the child anyways. A loving couple who wants it versus two strangers fighting over money. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-say-does-the-father-have-in-abortions/573174.md?page=5)