# How much sympathy do people deserve who go adventuring in dangerous, politically unstable areas? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343 "2010-09-20T00:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/21 "2010-09-20T05:19:36Z")
I’m sympathetic. I could see myself doing something similar. I’ve definitely wandered around in dangerous locations, including hiking in unstable border zones. I wonder if I had been killed, Dopers would have blamed me for being there in the first place. I mean, I like to think I would stay away from the Iranian border if I were near it, but…yeah, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/22 "2010-09-20T05:22:15Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Sympathy is pretty cheap and I’m not going to be stingy with it. Yes. I feel sorry for them. I don’t understand why I would withhold my sympathy even for people who do stupid things. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/23 "2010-09-20T05:34:07Z")
In this case I think it is possible that the Iranian government is correct and that they were spying. To continue on their hiking foray after being warned not to by the locals, including the inn keeper where they were staying and the local police, suggests an agenda of some kind. There are important aspects to the story that are missing. Keeping it a case of ‘those dumb kids on a hike’ serve the cause of both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/24 "2010-09-20T05:41:24Z")
> [@](#): > > “gifted linguist and photographer with wanderlust for travel and a student of Arab cultures. He’s a remarkably talented guy.” This guy has CIA written all over him. [http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/08/01/iran.americans.detained/index.html](http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/08/01/iran.americans.detained/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/25 "2010-09-20T05:43:50Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And tell me again why their being locked up is unjust? They _were_ aught over the border in Iran … and I doubt they had an Iranian stamp in their passports … they were in the country _illegally_ and the Iranian government has every right to pop them into the nearest slammer. It’s unjust because Iran is holding them on false charges of being spies even though everybody knows it’s not true. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/26 "2010-09-20T05:54:23Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > This guy has CIA written all over him. > > [http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/08/01/iran.americans.detained/index.html](http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/08/01/iran.americans.detained/index.html) How sure are we that they actually were over the border? If they were spies, yeah, the CIA would leave them hung out to dry. And if the Iranians crossed the border and scooped up the hikers in Iraq, I wouldn’t expect them to admit it, either. I don’t see either side as being particularly credible. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/27 "2010-09-20T05:56:40Z")
I fell a certain minimal sympathy for them, like anyone who takes a risk for the thrill of it and loses. Sucks that they lost, but it wasn’t a NECESSARY risk. Like mountain climbers who die on Mt. Everest. Sucks that they die, but it was their choice. Also, I found myself wondering if they were actually CIA. If they WERE CIA, they’d have my full sympathy, doing a dangerous job and all. But the point is, if I were wondering if they were CIA, I can IMAGINE how suspicious the Iranians would be. So, red flag. Bull. If they weren’t CIA, they were asking for it, and got it. Still sucks, but damn … On edit … others see my point. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/28 "2010-09-20T10:57:52Z")
I’d feel more sympathy for them if, like **Captor** and **ghardester** , I didn’t have a sneaky suspicion there was more to it. Unlike **Captor** , my sympathy for the CIA is … much less than if they’d just been stupid. I don’t think I could adequately express how much less. “Not piss on them if they were on fire” might come close. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/29 "2010-09-20T11:17:01Z")
Prima Facie CIA I would say. Contrary to what is often asserted on the board, most countries even ones with “evil, dangerous and crazy regimes” are far too busy to care about some guy who wandered over into their territory. Most likely what happens is they either quietly send them back across or they deport them. Too much bother otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/30 "2010-09-20T11:29:51Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > > [@even\_sven](#): > > > > Sympathy is pretty cheap and I’m not going to be stingy with it. > > Yes. > I feel sorry for them. I don’t understand why I would withhold my sympathy even for people who do stupid things. I’ll go with these feelings as well. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/31 "2010-09-20T11:36:26Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Wow, I’m pretty surprised by the responses. So anyone who goes around the world doing their (peaceful) thing and doesn’t cower in fear at hostile/violent/psychopathic people deserves whatever happens to them? Sounds a lot like blame the victim to me. Would it be John Doe’s fault if he drove through Compton, even knowing it has a high crime rate and he could have taken an alternate route, and gets carjacked and shot? Insert yourself into your scenario. Are you gonna go wandering in Compton? No - becasuse in the scenario, just or fair or not, you end up dead. We live in the real world and there are real consequences for decisions we make, and they don’t always favor the pure of heart. These hikers were not only gambling with their safety, but with the danger of creating an international incident. They have become another complication in an already complex situation in Iran and Iraq as it relates to the West. Now they have become pawns, and ultimately we will have to sacrifice a few pawns of our own (in the grand chess game) to get them back. The diplomamatic capital burned up to free these dunderheads could have been used for something more producitve. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/32 "2010-09-20T11:44:41Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Re the Hikers snagged by Iran near the Iran-Iraq border and being effectively held hostage for over a year now. [Sarah Shourd](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39255177/ns/us_news-life/) has been released, but the two men are still in Iran’s custody. > > How much sympathy do people deserve who (effectively) decide to put thier head into the lion’s mouth by hiking or exploring in extremely dangerous areas. > > Their being locked up is unjust, but I’m having some degree of trouble not thinking they brought most of this mess on themselves through stupid and arrogant decisions to go hiking in a very dangerous place for westerners. > [@runner pat](#): > > Close to none. > [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > > [@astro](#): > > > > Their being locked up is unjust, but I’m having some degree of trouble not thinking they brought most of this mess on themselves through stupid and arrogant decisions to go hiking in a very dangerous place for westerners. > > I would tend to agree with this, and judging by reader comments (including some way over the top stuff) in news stories about the trio, I don’t think the average American is especially sympathetic towards the three hikers, with a seeming consensus that they brought this situation on themselves with thier own foolishness/recklessness. > [@ExTank](#): > > My sympathy quotient is fucking zilch for the douchebags. > > Seriously, they couldn’t find someplace else on the entirety of the planet to go hiking other than along the border of one of the fucking craziest nations on Earth? > > As far as I’m concerned, it’s a matter of “if you play with fire, don’t go bitchin’ and moanin’ when you get burned.” > [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Ditto. > [@An\_Gadai](#): > > > [@runner pat](#): > > > > Close to none. > > I agree. This may be off-topic, but, how does the above attitude compare with people’s attitude towards victims of some proverbial crimes, like walking in a bad part of town at night and being mugged (for a guy) or raped (for a woman)? I always think that in such cases both the aggressor and the victim share some responsibility. The aggressor for being an asshole and breaking the law, but also the victim for taking actions that were too risky, given the reality on the ground. This seems to be what people are saying for these hikers. The Iranians are assholes and but the victims are also to blame for taking actions that were too risky, given the reality on the ground. However, in the walking in a bad part of town at night and being attacked situation, it seems to me that most people absolve the victim of any blame, especially in cases of rape. I don’t think this is consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/33 "2010-09-20T11:49:59Z")
I have a strong suspicion they they really were spies, in which case my sympathy is pretty much nil. If they were just stupid then I feel much more sympathy; yes, people shouldn’t do stupid things, but one of the problems with stupid behavior is the penalties tend to be severely disproportionate. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/34 "2010-09-20T12:35:26Z")
First point: the world is what it is-you may not like this, but you cannot change it. Second, did these fools ever stop to consider just how stupid a stunt they were planning? Third, they are playing into the hands of Ahmadinadjad and his crazy friends-now the regime is $500,000 richer, thanks to these imbeciles. It’s kinda like the warnings on a bottle of poison-drink this and you will die. Unfortunately, these three were too stupid (or willful) to read the warning label. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/35 "2010-09-20T12:45:55Z")
I think sympathy, like anything can be misplaced. Sure it’s easy to feel bad for people that do stupid things, but how many times is this gonna have to happen. If I go sit next to a bonfire and I get a spark on my clothes, sure everyone feels bad I got burned. But you have to expect those kinds of things. It’s like having a kid. You have to protect them, but it does no one any good to contantly bail them out. They have to learn ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/36 "2010-09-20T13:16:51Z")
I remember a story about a woman in south africa who decided the seals were cute. She was going to pet one. Instead she got her nose bitten off. People are animals. Dont feed the bears. Dont pet the seals. Dont walk into the Iranians lair. During a trip across the US that my brother and I took we were pretty close to Flint. Was there something in Flint that we couldnt see in Buffalo, New York or any number of other cities? Was there something in the mountains of Iran that was missing in the nearby mountains? Why did they need to go there? I can feel sympathy that they will perhaps pay out of scale for their willful stupidity, but they failed to properly manage their risks. Now they are feeding the bears. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/37 "2010-09-20T13:42:30Z")
They were looking for adventure and they found it. Sympathy doesn’t play a part. If, for example, they had discovered some lost city and become rich and famous during their travels what would they owe us? Nothing, same thing we owe them when their risk doesn’t pan out. I do feel sorry for their families who are forced to deal with the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/38 "2010-09-20T13:49:19Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > \ > > These hikers were not only gambling with their safety, but with the danger of creating an international incident. They have become another complication in an already complex situation in Iran and Iraq as it relates to the West. Now they have become pawns, and ultimately we will have to sacrifice a few pawns of our own (in the grand chess game) to get them back. The diplomamatic capital burned up to free these dunderheads could have been used for something more producitve. This is where I am with it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/39 "2010-09-20T13:54:35Z")
Fuck 'em. They were there by their own free choice. Let them stay there. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343/40 "2010-09-20T13:54:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I have a strong suspicion they they really were spies, in which case my sympathy is pretty much nil. If they were just stupid then I feel much more sympathy; yes, people shouldn’t do stupid things, but one of the problems with stupid behavior is the penalties tend to be severely disproportionate. This, in its entirety, is pretty much exactly how I feel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-sympathy-do-people-deserve-who-go-adventuring-in-dangerous-politically-unstable-areas/554343.md?page=3)