# How much trouble is New Zealand in? Will fleeing Americans save them?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [April 19, 2025, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237 "2025-04-19T20:10:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2025, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/41 "2025-04-20T13:32:00Z")
> [@Spoons](#):
>
> So yeah, Americans, if you visit Australia—“seppo” is not a compliment.
TIL …
> [Derogatory] word used by the English and Australians for all American nationals. Derived from Rhyming slang (Septic Tank = Yank)
[**SOURCE**](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Seppo)
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2025, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/42 "2025-04-20T14:07:00Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> Do we like Americans? I think the majority of us aren’t big fans of American politics and the effect it has on the rest of the world and so we might treat Americans with some suspicion initially until we’ve decided the specific American in question is a good person and not like all those other Americans, the loud obnoxious ones who love guns more than anything except God.
I mentioned upthread that during one era of my life I visited NZ on business a bunch.
Including during the short strokes of the 2004 US presidential campaign when George Bush II was up for re-election and eventually won over John Kerry.
I’d say my experience then there echoed the snip quoted above. But turned up to about eleventy. The USA itself and its government was viewed _very_ suspiciously, as a barely contained rogue force stomping about the world both foolishly and dangerously. Individual Americans were likewise assumed to be bad actors until proven better.
It didn’t help that the stereotypical cultural image of a Kiwi is a rather quiet restrained sort who speaks quietly but earnestly and doesn’t say much to strangers whereas the cultural image of an American, and especially an American tourist, is of a loud brash sort heard across the room.
If they were un-fond of GWB then, I cannot imagine how roundly the toddler tyrant trump is hated there now.
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2025, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/43 "2025-04-20T20:56:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> whereas the cultural image of an American, and especially an American tourist, is of a loud brash sort heard across the room.
Not a myth, in my experience. Younger American tourists seem to be very outgoing types, hence why they are travelling, and they want to share their stories and learn about the cultures they are in, or at least superficially appear to be learning, so they _do not shut up_. They overdo whatever they think they’re doing, and seem incapable of reading the room.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/44 "2025-04-20T21:01:51Z")
> [@Spoons](#):
>
> So yeah, Americans, if you visit Australia—“seppo” is not a compliment.
It’s such a silly insult - “you see, Yank rhymes with ‘septic tank’, which is abbreviated to” yeah I’m sorry, but I really don’t think the person coming off as a dork in this exchange is me.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2025, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/45 "2025-04-20T21:26:20Z")
Slang in general and rhyming slang in particular is a culture- or subculture-level phenomenon. If your culture has it, it seems normal and clever and convenient. If your culture lacks it, it seems ludicrously childish and a big obstacle to clear communication.
My culture lacks it. But I get that other cultures have it. And that they think having it is normal.
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### Author:  [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2025, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/46 "2025-04-20T21:26:59Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> Not a myth, in my experience.
Agreed, not a myth. But as I pointed out to my husband, if you met a quiet one, how would you know? 😉
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2025, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/47 "2025-04-20T21:59:44Z")
Deleted since I didn’t see mod post.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/48 "2025-04-21T10:51:51Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#):
>
> Agreed, not a myth. But as I pointed out to my husband, if you met a quiet one, how would you know? 😉
That’s why everyone thinks that tourists from their own country are the worst. Look at it this way: say you’re walking in a beautiful outdoor market in Italy and someone suddenly shouts for their spouse to come look at something. If they’re shouting in American-accented English, you’ll cringe and think, _“Goddam Americans”_; if they’re shouting in French or Portuguese, you probably wouldn’t even notice.
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### Author:  [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/49 "2025-04-21T12:49:19Z")
The Ugly American stereotype has always bothered me for two reasons:
I know plenty of polite and well-behaved Americans who most certainly do not complain about not finding a good cheeseburger. And
I have met plenty of Europeans who visit here and are very rude and critical about how we do things here. One example was an Italian woman who was invited to my wife’s Big Italian Family Sunday Dinner, where Nana makes gallons of meatballs and sauce, served over pasta. This woman was, IMO, extremely rude in telling them that’s not the right way to serve those dishes.
Newsflash, lady: They don’t have to do it your way, say thank you and STFU.
And I’ve posted here about my Finnish friend who has lived in the US for 20 years and never stops complaining about all the ways the US isn’t as good as Finland. Why are you still here, then?
Point is, it’s not all Americans, and it’s not only Americans.
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### Author:  [@Quondam\_Mechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quondam_Mechanic)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/50 "2025-04-21T12:58:28Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#):
>
> Last I checked (25 years ago) immigrants over 50 need not apply. Alas, I’m more than ten years past my sell by date.
Nowadays I only worry about my expiration date.
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### Author:  [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/51 "2025-04-21T14:21:10Z")
> [@OldOlds](#):
>
> The Ugly American stereotype has always bothered me for two reasons:
>
> […]
>
> Point is, it’s not all Americans, and it’s not only Americans.
Excellent example of a self-canceling post!
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/52 "2025-04-21T14:23:52Z")
Huh?
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### Author:  [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/53 "2025-04-21T14:52:19Z")
> [@OldOlds](#):
>
> Newsflash, lady: They don’t have to do it your way, say thank you and STFU.
This sentiment sort of popped out at me.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/54 "2025-04-21T14:57:32Z")
My late MIL was born a century ago (wow) in the US to recent immigrants from Italy. They lived in an expat community with lots of other recent immigrants and relatives from there. The family took a lot of pride in the thought they were keeping to the Old Country ways for many years.
At middle-age Mom finally got to visit Italy. She came back with lots of stories about their bad pronunciation and wrong ways of making Italian food.
She was utterly and obliviously sincere. It was everything her daughter = my wife, and I could do to not laugh out loud. She was otherwise a dear lady, but wow, sometimes the oblivious just burned.
I suppose that lady from Italy visiting @OldOlds’ family in the US was probably a cousin of MIL’s. We’re _all_ related doncha know? Or so she said. 🤦♂️
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### Author:  [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/55 "2025-04-21T15:06:16Z")
Well, to an extent that was just my being a little hyperbolic in my post. Everyone was very kind to her.
But the Northeast US Italian-American scene is its own culture, and its natural that it has diverged from the mother culture. I found it offensive that she seemed to think we here (I’m not even a little bit Italian) somehow owe her to do it the Italian way. It also really struck me that this is precisely the behavior Americans are so often accused of.
I doubt they have street after street of triple deckers with each floor occupied by a different generation of the same family, either.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/56 "2025-04-21T15:14:17Z")
> [@Spoons](#):
>
> Anyway, I walk into a bar, and take a barstool. Barman asks what I want, I say, “VB off the tap, thanks,” and another barstool hears my accent and says, “Fuck, we’ve got a seppo.”
As I learned in another Straight Dope thread many, many years ago where this was brought up. The correct response to being referred to as a seppo in Australia is, “Fuck off, you sheep shagging colonial.” It might even endear you to some of the locals.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/57 "2025-04-21T16:18:59Z")
Wasn’t that a bit in The Sopranos?
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/58 "2025-04-21T16:29:25Z")
> [@OldOlds](#):
>
> I have met plenty of Europeans who visit here and are very rude and critical about how we do things here.
Americans are described as being loud and obnoxious in public while in Europe. I can’t say I’ve seen that, haven’t spent much time in Europe. However I have seen Europeans being rude and critical privately here in the US. Mostly they are exceptionally polite though, as I’ve observed most people to be when visiting other countries. So to sum up, people from anywhere can suck wherever they are, but they don’t do it that often in front of me.
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### Author:  [@Ferris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferris)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2025, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/59 "2025-04-22T03:10:32Z")
I emigrated here over twenty years ago (but from the U.K, not America). The rules for immigration were, and still are, rather tough and subject to change depending on particular skill shortages. For example, the number of fruit pickers from Pacific Island countries recently was increased. But as mentioned above, once you are over about 45, it becomes extremely difficult outside of some highly specialised occupation, e.g. surgeon.
The ‘brain drain’ has been a thing ever since I arrived. NZ can’t compete on salary, cost of living or size of job pool for career development. So the number of people who train here as nurses (one example) and then move to Australia for higher wages is considerable. The big NZ drawcard remains the landscape.
However, NZ is unlikely to go down the South Korea path of population decline since the immigration ‘tap’ can be (and has been) adjusted by the Government of the day to balance the net inflow/outflow. In the past, there’s been periods where Chinese immigration was opposed by populist political parties on the basis that they were pushing up house prices. China and India both make up a lot of immigrants - as per NZ Stats site:
[Latest NZ immigration statistics](https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/net-migration-falls-in-2024/)
Main reason to keep the tap only slightly ‘open’ is that NZ really can’t manage or afford the infrastructure needed for a larger population. New immigrants need houses, hospitals, schools and everything else. That problem has multiple causes (and gets political very quickly) but there’s a broad consensus that a _laissez faire_ approach of letting lots of new migrants in would be overall a bad idea.
And as for the antipathy toward Americans, I suggest it’s probably stronger in smaller and rural areas. Auckland (largest city) is very multicultural and by one cite I found, made up of approximately 40% immigrants by population.
Probably similar to if I moved to the States. Less likely to be hostile on the basis of where I came from in New York than Anniston, Alabama. Plus there’s the points made already about ‘loudness’, etc. that apply anywhere.
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2025, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-is-new-zealand-in-will-fleeing-americans-save-them/1017237/60 "2025-04-22T03:14:15Z")
The population of NZ has increased by 1m since I moved away 25 years ago. That’s around a 25% increase.
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