# How much trouble with the law could I get for driving down Main St at 0.9c **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 10, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979 "2003-02-10T00:43:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/41 "2003-02-12T00:12:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nanoda \* > **I’m not sure about the frequency shift being too much for a radar gun, but I don’t have time to calculate it.** Well, Ka Band radar operates in the range of 33.4 - 36 GHz. Moving at .9c will give you a redshift of 1:1.9 or a blueshift of 10:1, depending on whether you’re moving away from or towards the cop. So your cop’s radar receiver will need to operate at frequencies ranging roughly from 18.2 GHz all the way up to 347 GHz. X-Band operates at 10.5 - 10.55 GHz, and would be a little more efficient, needing bandwidth of only 5.54 - 105.25 GHz. Still ridiculous, but slightly easier requirements. Anyway, the new latest and greatest in police radar, the [Stalker](http://www.ingram-tech.com/s_dual.htm) dual-antenna K/Ka Band radar, can detect speeds between 12 and 200mph in stationary mode (5-200 in moving mode). **k2dave** ’s roughly 604 million mph would be slightly outside its operating range, not to mention response time - even if the radar equipment could manage the speed, it probably isn’t sensitive enough to pick up a signal that lasts less than 6x10[sup]-7[/sup] seconds. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by pravnik_ > **More importantly, if you increased to 1.0c, could you get pulled over for not using your headlights?** Nah, at that speed, you’d make plenty of your own light through friction. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/42 "2003-02-12T02:29:46Z")
Around here speeding is just lumped into a few different categories: 1-5 mph over, 5-10 mph over, etc, ending with a category for 30+ mph over. So if you pulled this stunt in Michigan, you’d just be nailed for going more than 30 mph over the speed limit on a surface street. Which is a pretty steep fine and quite a few points on your license. (No, I do not know that from personal experience.) Reckless driving and drag racing also sound like good bets. A bigger concern might be the fact that your shockwave just blasted the cop into another city 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nangleator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19adc/32.png) [@Nangleator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nangleator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/43 "2003-03-21T13:34:16Z")
> [@](#): > > …find a way of moving without passing through the intervening space, and if you did that, you wouldn’t be speeding - you would be leaving the jurisdiction of the police to go into subspace, hyperspace, whatever you call it, move, and then re-enter our space. Well, the police (and reality) measure speed based on how soon you’re in a new location after having been in a previous location. Think about how police airplanes measure your speed. You hit a painted mark on the road, and if you hit the next one too soon, you’re speeding. The cop wouldn’t care that you did your speeding in some other dimension. The results affect _his_ dimension. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/44 "2003-03-21T13:41:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\*\*Performing a turn without a signal. \*\* I doubt he’ll get a ticket for that one. With the amount of drivers I see who don’t use their turn signals, it can’t be that strictly enforced of a law. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/45 "2003-03-21T15:01:33Z")
[nitpick] 186000 miles/s is a 3sf approximation. Round off the fine to 3sf, or use the accurate value (18628somthing). [/nitpick] **Nangleator** There’s a difference between measuring speed and defining speed - if you start at A, end at B, and are visible inbetween you must have reached or exeeded the speed distAB/timeAB. This would be a good way of observing people going at a too great speed, even if its not explicitly mentioned in law. I’m not saying your wrong, but a cite might be useful DOH! I was premature with that [/nitpick] sorry. Disreard. ---
**Author:** ![Nangleator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19adc/32.png) [@Nangleator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nangleator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/46 "2003-03-21T15:16:05Z")
Shade, I’m not sure what you mean. It sounds like we’re on the same side of the argument. I perhaps should have said 'ONE of the ways police measure speed…" I don’t have a cite, but I was in a car measured by aircraft. The driver got a ticket. I’m surprised we haven’t yet seen people get tickets for passing tollbooths too soon after having passed through previous ones. Those automatic toll devices in cars ought to make that possible. And in the future, I’m sure all cars will be required by law to have Lojack-type devices in them. You’ll get a speeding ticket in the mail if you ever exceed the speed limit within the United States. Yikes! ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/47 "2003-03-21T16:24:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nangleator \* > \*\*I’m surprised we haven’t yet seen people get tickets for passing tollbooths too soon after having passed through previous ones. Those automatic toll devices in cars ought to make that possible. And in the future, I’m sure all cars will be required by law to have Lojack-type devices in them. You’ll get a speeding ticket in the mail if you ever exceed the speed limit within the United States. > > Yikes! \*\* I believe the laws in some states require a human witness (i.e. an officer) to actually have seen the event. It also prevents a defense of “how did you know your equipment was working properly?” (I’ve lived in both Wisconsin and Illinois, and I think they are among states that require witnesses for speeding tickets and the like. If the cop doesn’t show up to trial, your ticket gets thrown out.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/48 "2003-03-21T17:09:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nangleator \* > \*\* > I’m surprised we haven’t yet seen people get tickets for passing tollbooths too soon after having passed through previous ones. Those automatic toll devices in cars ought to make that possible. And in the future, I’m sure all cars will be required by law to have Lojack-type devices in them. You’ll get a speeding ticket in the mail if you ever exceed the speed limit within the United States. > > Yikes! \*\* My grandfather got a ticket when driving through the WVa turnpike. The people at toll plaza A apparently called ahead to toll plaza B. I don’t know _when_ this happenned, but he told me about it 5 years ago, so it was before the whole “EZ-Pass” system was deployed on that turnpike. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/49 "2003-03-21T17:25:33Z")
“c”, the speed of light _in a vacuum_ is the max speed of light. In air it would be something less. Thus the $6 billion dollar fine is probably overstated by $200-300. I’d demand a refund. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/50 "2003-03-21T18:45:15Z")
Best be sure you don’t hit anything. [Try this.](http://www.wooleysark.com/mil/LOSAT2.mpeg) Warning: It’s an Mpeg about 2 Megs big. It’s a kinetic energy weapon. Nothing by high-speed metal hits that tank. No explosives at all. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/51 "2003-03-21T22:44:25Z")
**Jonathan** , that movie doesn’t look quite right to me. Any cite as to its authenticity? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/52 "2003-03-22T01:29:04Z")
These days I work at a military publisher. I got it from a public affairs officer from a base-that-shall-not-be-named-but they-do-a-lot-of-weapons-testing. Further I saith not. We took it as good enough to use in a story. ---
**Author:** ![Ender\_Will](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/53 "2003-03-22T03:16:13Z")
Speaking of drag racing… Since you’ll run the quarter in ~.000000134 seconds by my calculations (which could be way, way off…feel free to correct), why don’t you cruise down to the local strip and race anyone for any stakes they care to name? You’d make a killing, even if you had a horrid reaction time…just my $0.02 about how to make a buck or two. And by the way, does your hyperdrive meet emissions standards? They’d probably get you for that, or at least they would here in CA. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/54 "2003-03-23T02:57:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kanicbird \* > \*\*Lets say that I have a car that can travel short distances at 0.9c (c being that speed of light thingy) that didn’t crush me nor cause the air hitting the windshield to go into thermonuclear fusion. I see a parking spot at the end of the block, hit hyperdrive and almost instantainously appear right at the spot, all with in site a a cop. > > What can I reasonably be charged with? \*\* * * * It doesn’t matter. By the time you get there, some blue-haired little grannylady will have pulled into the spot ahead of you. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/55 "2003-03-23T04:44:04Z")
Your trip should make for some _very_ interesting skid marks. And, when you respond to your summons in Traffic Court, a life-imitates-the-movies moment when the officer produces a photograph of said skid marks… Positraction, my ass! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@lite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lite)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/56 "2003-03-23T10:20:08Z")
the Grand Forks Police Department (i.e. Brownshirts) would find a way to ticket you. Guess it matters where you’re writing the query. Jon ---
**Author:** ![ryoushi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@ryoushi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryoushi)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/57 "2003-03-23T11:25:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SandyHook \* > \*\*“c”, the speed of light _in a vacuum_ is the max speed of light. In air it would be something less. Thus the $6 billion dollar fine is probably overstated by $200-300. I’d demand a refund. \*\* I don’t think that affects anything. The speed of light in a vacuum is the only universal speed limit - whether light happens to be going slower than that in the medium you’re in makes no difference. Otherwise, we could possibly get away with it by driving our car through [here](http://focus.aps.org/story/v3/st37), where the speed of light is only 17m/s, or around 40mph. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/58 "2003-03-23T12:26:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Woodall \* > \*\*My grandfather got a ticket when driving through the WVa turnpike. The people at toll plaza A apparently called ahead to toll plaza B. > I don’t know _when_ this happenned, but he told me about it 5 years ago, so it was before the whole “EZ-Pass” system was deployed on that turnpike. \*\* Someone told me they did this in Europe someplace. Apparently everyone still goes as fast, but there’s a large stretch near the end where everyone pulls over and has a cigarette or something. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/59 "2003-03-23T12:33:22Z")
When I got busted for speeding in Virginia, I was doing 88 mph and I got an $800 fine. Extrapolating that you’d be travelling at 602,640,000 mph, I predict that, if caught, quid pro quo, you’d be fined $5,478,545,454.55 ---
**Author:** ![Davidbw1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7993a0/32.png) [@Davidbw1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davidbw1)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979/60 "2003-03-23T21:11:43Z")
to all of those who are arguing about the speed of light in various media, the term “.9c” refers to .9 times the speed of light in a vaccum, not .9 times the speed of light in given media. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-trouble-with-the-law-could-i-get-for-driving-down-main-st-at-0-9c/153979.md?page=4)