# How much would ancient peoples have understood about the transference of plague 2000 years ago? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 5, 2018, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-would-ancient-peoples-have-understood-about-the-transference-of-plague-2000-years-ago/811864 "2018-04-05T10:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-would-ancient-peoples-have-understood-about-the-transference-of-plague-2000-years-ago/811864/1 "2018-04-05T10:46:11Z")
Hi Nothing I’ve read so far indicates that people 2000 years ago really understood the transfer mechanism of plague or how to protect oneself against it. Nonetheless they engaged in what we would call biological warfare. Intuitively, though, I have no doubt that they understood that close proximity to a diseased person or corpse would have heightened the risks of contracting that disease. All I have ever read was that they somehow associated the repellent odor of a plague victim with the disease itself. Are there any studies that present an ironclad case that armies back then understood the implications of introducing a diseased corpse into an enemy camp would lead to mass outbreaks of plague? I look forward to your feedback ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-would-ancient-peoples-have-understood-about-the-transference-of-plague-2000-years-ago/811864/2 "2018-04-05T11:20:35Z")
The wiki on the Germ Theory of Disease has [some interesting cites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory_of_disease#Pre-19th_century) from antiquity. There [doesn’t seem to be much solid evidence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare#Antiquity) of use of microbes in warfare 2000 years ago but by the middle ages they were tossing diseased corpses at enemies with catapults. (You really should get your hands on a copy of [this](https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Poison-Arrows-Scorpion-Bombs/dp/158567348X) book for some [interesting speculations](https://erenow.com/ancient/greek-fire-poison-arrows-scorpion-bombs/7.html).) ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-would-ancient-peoples-have-understood-about-the-transference-of-plague-2000-years-ago/811864/3 "2018-04-05T12:37:13Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The wiki on the Germ Theory of Disease has [some interesting cites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory_of_disease#Pre-19th_century) from antiquity. There [doesn’t seem to be much solid evidence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare#Antiquity) of use of microbes in warfare 2000 years ago but by the middle ages they were tossing diseased corpses at enemies with catapults. (You really should get your hands on a copy of [this](https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Poison-Arrows-Scorpion-Bombs/dp/158567348X) book for some [interesting speculations](https://erenow.com/ancient/greek-fire-poison-arrows-scorpion-bombs/7.html).) Thanks Darren Garrison. I’ll order the book. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-would-ancient-peoples-have-understood-about-the-transference-of-plague-2000-years-ago/811864/4 "2018-04-05T14:06:35Z")
This book (also an excellent read): [https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/genghis-khan-and-the-making-of-the-modern-world-jack-weatherford/1100618220?ean=9780307237811&st=PLA&sid=NOK\_DRS\_NOOK+EBooks\_00000000&2sid=Google\_&sourceId=PLGoP77105&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2Inz0aSj2gIVB5F-Ch1oZAVjEAkYEyABEgJHofD\_BwE#/](https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/genghis-khan-and-the-making-of-the-modern-world-jack-weatherford/1100618220?ean=9780307237811&st=PLA&sid=NOK_DRS_NOOK+EBooks_00000000&2sid=Google_&sourceId=PLGoP77105&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2Inz0aSj2gIVB5F-Ch1oZAVjEAkYEyABEgJHofD_BwE#/) Also suggests that Genghis Khan used to toss diseased corpses over walls into enemy strongholds. That must have been the bad job in the army. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-would-ancient-peoples-have-understood-about-the-transference-of-plague-2000-years-ago/811864/5 "2018-04-06T16:22:29Z")
There has always been some understanding that some plagues could be spread. The term quarantine goes back to the black death (specifically attempts by 14th century Venice to stop ships carrying the plague) Can’t find a cite, but I was recently surprised to hear that one of the reasons for the “first do no harm” clause of the Hippocratic oath was a biological warfare attempt in Hippocrates time (where a doctor first tested the pathogen on prisoners, before it was used against the enemy). ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-would-ancient-peoples-have-understood-about-the-transference-of-plague-2000-years-ago/811864/6 "2018-04-06T23:44:36Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Also suggests that Genghis Khan used to toss diseased corpses over walls into enemy strongholds. Not necessarily Genghis per se. The common association with the Mongols and plague is the siege of Kaffa on the Crimean penninsula by The Golden Horde in 1345-6, well over a century after his death. The spreading plague pandemic( probably starting in Asia in the late 1330’s )had reached the besieging army and was decimating it when the Mongols got the bright idea to send some of their corpses over the walls - speading the love as it were. It was good thinking, but probably had no significant effect. Plague was spread primarily by flea bites or by still-living victims that had entered a pneumonic stage. Cold bodies that would be avoided “like the plague” probably wouldn’t have spread the disease. Instead it is likely that the pests infecting the Mongol army ignored the walls of Kaffa and carried the pandemic right through them on their own, igniting the European Black Death. It’s also possibly Kaffa wasn’t the epicenter of spread, but rather it was nearby ports like Constantinople that were infected more or less simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-would-ancient-peoples-have-understood-about-the-transference-of-plague-2000-years-ago/811864/7 "2018-04-07T00:18:21Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > There has always been some understanding that some plagues could be spread. The term quarantine goes back to the black death (specifically attempts by 14th century Venice to stop ships carrying the plague) > > Can’t find a cite, but I was recently surprised to hear that one of the reasons for the “first do no harm” clause of the Hippocratic oath was a biological warfare attempt in Hippocrates time (where a doctor first tested the pathogen on prisoners, before it was used against the enemy). They knew about transmission by contact, and while only 100’s of years old Hieronymus Fracastor’s Syphilis poem _Syphilis Sive Morbus Gallicus_ is probably a good indicator of what could have possibly existed before science advanced. It is extremely long but I have posted a link to an English translation and a related passage. Note that in the following, _miasms_ are related to the homeopathic _sycosis, syphilis, and psor_ which are “inherited predispositions to weakness” [https://archive.org/details/hieronymusfraca00frac](https://archive.org/details/hieronymusfraca00frac) > [@](#): > > What was the origin of this poison ? Are we to > believe that the sun’s rays, associated with the malign > influence of the stars, raised from the bosom of the earth > and of the waters unhealthful vapors which spread in > the air contagious miasms, the germs of a disease as yet > unknown? Or, on the other hand, were these miasms > engendered in the upper regions of the atmosphere, from > which as a consequence, they descended among us ? It > cannot be told, how many mysteries of the sky unfold to > our eyes, how difficult it is to go back to the origin of > causes, which at times are separated from their effects by > long series of years, and at others are mingled with > events in an inextricable confusion.