Daowajan, you might be okay skipping out on the exams for a little while . . . but please consider getting another one next year from a different doctor or clinic. Finding someone who makes you more comfortable will be a big help, and they really do get easier after you’ve had a few. Familiarity helps with the “You want to do what to my what!?!” factor, and the more relaxed you are, the easier it is.
WONKO –
The key words there were in addition to disease prevention". Fertility may be for some an additional reason to go; if it is not, that doesn’t mean that then there is no reason to go.
You can probably skip a year or two, especially if you’re not sexually active, but I would point out:
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There is a point at which your risk for reproductive cancers is no lower than any other woman’s, simply because you are woman and regardless of your family history. One in ten women will develop breast cancer and one in fifty will develop ovarian cancer; genetic factors can make developing the disease more likely than this, but there is no known genetic factor that can make it less likely. But the risks to a young woman are fairly low.
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While you may think now that you don’t ever want children, that may be something you will reconsider later, so you should be vigilant with your reproductive health, especially if you think you are at risk of developing (or have developed) an STD. Again, if you’re not sexually active and are young, this is obviously less of a concern.
IANAD, but I would not recommend skipping “for quite a few years” in any event. Maybe one or two, three tops. But as others have already said, while these procedures are not pleasant under any circumstances, they should not be excessively embarrassing or painful. If they are, find a different, better provider.
I get my check-up because of the pill -the university gives them out free, as long as you have your physical. I was lucky, and found a good doctor at the clinic the first time (a man, actually - I could NEVER relax enough with a woman!). I actually feel SAFER with that requirement, because even though I am at pretty low risk, and although the correlation to the pill is small for a lot of diseases, it is still the fact that there is the POSSIBILITY of something wrong, and I’d rather catch it early than late. Besides, for me at least, its all covered by my insurance and student health plan (Quebec medicare doesn’t cover the actual cost of the pill, but the school does), so its no extra cost to me, and its “preventative maintenance”, so to speak.
Try a different doctor, but don’t give up on it altogether. It’s safer for you, and that means its a good thing. Of course, that’s really just IMHO.
A gyne exam should never be “so awful” - there’s just no excuse. Not fun, no - but no more unpleasent than a routine dental cleaning (as an example of another unfun medical maintenance thing)
It should NEVER hurt. And they can warm up the damn speculum. Nor should you be in stirrups waiting for the doctor - there’s no damn reason you can’t sit upright until he’s in the room.
You can use another form of birth control. Really. Some require a doctor’s order for fitting, but do not require a yearly exam thereafter. Others can be had over the counter (I had a fondness for The Sponge, for example) Yes, they require responsibility to use - so does taking a daily pill. No, they aren’t quite as effective - but if used diligently and every time they do come close.
The above is not to be construed as a value judgement on anyone’s birth control, or an endorsement to change same. Just a statement that there are alternatives out there.
You know, I have a REAL PROBLEM with the notion that ANY part of my body is a “ticking time bomb”. What the hell are we teaching young women, that they think this about themselves? Yes, everyone needs checkups. Yes, everyone it vulnerable to age, accident, illness, and disease. But we are not teetering on the brink every day of our lives. Puh-leeze!
That said - even if you don’t want children you need to take care of your reproductive organs because, like any other part of your body, neglect can lead to problems. If you are sexually active with multiple partners, or have recently changed partners, you need the exam because untreated STD’s can cause generalized pelvic problems that translate into paid - with or without pregnancy.
That said - I’ve had horrific gyne exams and ones that were OK. I went reguarly for awhile while in college but quite because of the emotional abuse that was dished out at the clinic (note - that was AFTER I had had several consecutive normal paps). I stopped going for a prolonged period of time because, quite simply, I couldn’t afford it - I was making too much money to be seen at the free clinics, but not enough to shell out $70-100 for annual exam when I was living on rice and cabbage and struggling to pay the rent. I’d like to think that sort of thing doesn’t happen any more, but it probably does. Food comes first, it’s that simple. But when I started making more money I didn’t have an excuse, did I?
Some women - multiple partners, childbearing, family history, etc - really do need a yearly exam. I’m on a three year schedule because 1) consistently normal exams, 2) amazingly cancer-free family history, 3) monogamous relationship of 14 years standing (in other words, STD’s not a factor), and 4) I don’t need a yearly Rx for the pill because I’ve never taken it - and I don’t have children, either, so yes, the alternative can certainly be effective if you are committed to using them.
(My decision NOT to take the pill was based on a family history of serious side effects in my female relatives who DID use it. Your mileage may vary)
I may start going more frequently when I enter menopause - it depends on how things go with that. But if I follow the pattern of most of my female relatives that probably won’t be necessary then. We’ll see.
One point I want to make is that decision to go LESS frequently than once a year should only be made after consistent annual exams show continued health, no problems, and low risk factors.
Very well stated. I wasn’t trying to argue that women should be forced to have the exam (I’m not, so no need for GD), just that the argument you presented was flawed. Everything else I agree on.
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Simple chlamydial cervicitis is often asymptomatic. However, chlamydial infection, over time, can produce fallopian tube scarring and infertility (if it progresses to PID). The infection in men is also typically asymptomatic. However, in males, long term complications are rare.
The point of the exams is that they serve to detect diseases that can adversely affect a woman’s reproductive and general health. The argument that, for fairness’ sake, annual exams should be performed in men has some value. However, men face no risk of decreased fertility from chlamydial infection and are more likely than women to be symptomatic from other infections (for example, gonorrhea). The other reason you get an exam every year when your prescription comes due is simple medical economics. Your Gyn gets paid for doing exams, not writing prescriptions. Birth control pills are the carrot that brings countless otherwise healthy young women in for their exam each year.
Perhaps, you can get your pills from a family practitioner? I don’t know if they would still adhere to the annual pelvic exam requirement. If you are young, healthy, and monogamous, there’s little reason for an exam every year. Maybe a family practitioner could see the wisdom in this line of reasoning.
I have seen two women with advanced cervical cancer, both age 31, who had refised Pap tests in the past. Both were going to die from the fact that they refudes to have Pap tests as they found them uncomfortable. One of them had a tumour so large she could not have a bowel movement since her colon was being compressed. It was a horrible and tragic thing to see, and could likely have been easily avoided. I don’t know any woman who likes getting her Pap exam. ANd your individual chance of this happening to you is low. But you have to assess the severity of the consequences. You should have regular Pap exams. There are ways of doing it that do not use stirrups and may allow you to lie on your side; many women find these methods more comfortable.
I think women would be less reluctant to get the gyne exams if there were fewer instances of BS.
I once had a doctor who INSISTED that I MUST go on the pill. Would not listen to my reasons for choosing not to use it, and her spiel went something along the lines that I was too immature to say no to sex (I was still a virgin at the time, by the way - and over 20), that being under 25 I was obviously too irresponsible to use other forms of birth control, that because I was a young woman I didn’t have the backbone to insist my boyfriend wear a condom (I didn’t have a boyfriend at the time), I was going to get pregnant and have to drop out of college and my whole life would be ruined because I wasn’t on the pill.
Had ANOTHER doctor who was freaked out because my natural cycle runs 32 days, not the more typical 28, and INSISTED I go on the pill to “correct” this problem and when I said that wasn’t a good enough reason he told me this was a totally abnormal situation, my hormones were “obviously” screwed up, and I was going to have some horrible dysfunction and probably get cancer of all my reproductive organs and die a horrible painful death by the age of 25 if I didn’t get on the pill IMMEDIATELY!
Have I ever mentioned I don’t respond well to scare tactics?
This same doctor told me that it was inevitable that I was going to get cancer because I started cycling before the age of twelve. While that does raise one’s risk slightly it is far from inevitable - early cycles are common in my family, but cancer is not, and the only relative I ever had who died of cancer was male, in his 70’s, and had leukemia, not cervical or endometrial cancer (obviously!)
The one after that didn’t push the pill, but she continually insisted that all men were creeps and they ALL cheated ALL the time regardless of what they said and promised and she fully expected any woman who walked into her office to be seething with STD’s.
Had another doctor who, when I told her I had NEVER had an infection “down there” of any sort, flat out called me a liar. (I still have never had a vaginal or bladder infection of any sort. I’ve been quite fortunate that I have never had any health problems from my reproductive system)
Just to be fair - I’ve had very considerate Gyne’s - my current one, for instance.
But, although the exam has never been particuarly physically unpleasent I really got sick of the tirades, failure to listen to my concerns, and intimidation that seemed to be the norm during my gyne exams from 18-30 years of age.
On the flip side - most of my male friends over the age of 40 (and that’s most of them) are seeing their urologist on a regluar basis. From what my husband (also over 40) tells me, their exams are no more fun than the women’s gyne check ups. Maybe they start having the regular exams later in life, but it does catch up with them.
I’ve been celibate for over 32 years. If it were a problem, the damage would be done by now.
Get a new doctor. Talk to your doc about doing the exam lying on your side or using thigh supports (there’s probably some technical term for them) instead of stirrups. I have a tricky hip that won’t let me stay in standard stirrup position for long, and getting stirrups that extended long enough that my feet weren’t perched precariously on the top bar made the exam MUCH better.
Last time I took the paper tablecloth off and actually watched-- seeing what was happening made things much better. It’s not like I’m bringing my cervix in for a 3000 mile oil change and quick lube…that’s ME on the table. I want feedback, and I want it NOW. “Here comes the pinchy bit” is a GOOD phrase to hear in my book. When they use enough lube to get the shiny metal stuff in without dragging my outer bits in, that avoids the ouchy insertion problems, too. (Of course, I could just have a hooha like a horse, and be delusional about that.)
Course, for me it’s all an issue of fear. I’ve flunked MORE than my share of Paps and had to make a few tough decisions about HPV treatment-- at this point, I’m not worried about having kids so much as about staying alive. Being treated like a human being instead of a walking cancer factory makes a big difference.
Corr
All very true. I’ve consistently stated throughout this thread that women should have yearly exams. This does not explain why the exams should be required to renew a prescription to the Pill.
I agree with this paragraph completely. Whether or not this is a good thing is another question. Everyone (men included) should have a full physical every year. There are many things we could do to compell people to go to the doctor. But is it fair to dictate to a grown person what health care choices they must make? The laws regarding prescriptions are supposedly written to protect patients from possible side effects of drugs, not to force people to do things that they really ought to do anyway, or to provide business opportunities to practitioners
As I have stated before, I agree with all the reasons that an annual exam is a good idea. Also, the medical histories of women in my family are filled with Things Better Left Unsaid. (This may contribute to my thinking of my uterus as The Enemy. This obviously doesn’t apply to everyone. Apologies for the time bomb exaggeration, Broomstick.) I skip joyfully to the clinic yearly, and spread my knees with a smile on my face. (Okay, not really, but you get my drift.) I would continue to get an exam every year (or every other year, or whatever my doctor recommends) even if it was not required for my prescription. I’m more concerned about other women who do not have the same health care options that I do. I’m thinking of primarly of teens (especially low-income) with parents who are not cooperative, who face a greater hurdle to getting the Pill.
And Broomstick, I like the Pill. I like it a lot. It regulates my wonky periods (bleeding on and off for 12 days is. not. fun.), and it’s extremely convenient and extremely effective. I’ve used the Sponge in the past, and, while I think it’s one of the best back-ups to a condom available without a prescription, but it was messy and inconvenient–for me, much more aggravating than just popping a pill each night. And, like I said, I’d be getting exams anyway. I agree wholeheartedly that women should be able to choose whatever birth control works for them, and I think it’s apalling that you were ever pressured to take the Pill.
Wonko, cancer is a disease you can get while celibate. No history in your family isn’t a guarantee of saftely.
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Really? You’ve hit that upper ceiling for the development of breast, cervical, ovarine, and uterine cancer, huh? You’re so old now that you’ll never develop those diseases, right? Refresh my memory – How old is that, again?
I don’t know about any upper ceiling, ok? I don’t mean to shout or anything, but people matching my demographic and genetic makeup virtually never have to deal with the types of cancer you describe. Any half-wit doctor can confirm this for you.
That’s why I don’t get the aformentioned exams.
Ever.
And I never will.
And That; as they say; is That.
Just for you info- I’m 32 years old; not that it’s any of your business.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Podkayne *
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Everyone (men included) should have a full physical every year. . **[/QUOTE
Does anyone have any evidence to support this statement or can anyone quote a bona fide expert who shares this opinion?
Okay, Yeah, ya caught me. Healthy persons under the age of 50 do not need a yearly physical exam.
Here are some guidelines that are repeated many places: http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/002125.cfm
WONKO –
I doubt it, since I don’t know what “demographic” or “genetic makeup” you are referring to. But I am unaware of any particular “demographic” or “genetic makeup” that “virtually never has to deal with” female reproductive cancers. Assuming you’re a woman, of course. If you’re male, then why the hell are you posting to this thread, just to be a jerk?
And congratulations on being 32. I realize your age isn’t any of my business, nor do I care about it. That’s why I never asked what it was.
Jodi, this response sounds straight from the pulpit. I grant you, it was made without benefit of knowing that WTS is 32 yo. Nonetheless, a persuasive argument can be made for the position that such a person does not need Gyn exams.
First, cervical cancer is essentially a sexually transmitted disease. If you haven’t had sex, your risk is essentially nil. Therefore, WTS doesn’t need an annual PAP smear.
Second, in the absence of a strong family history, breast cancer is a disease of the 40’s and really the 50’s and older. Therefore, WTS doesn’t need a breast exam (and I think a study came out recently showing that physician breast exams don’t reduce breast cancer mortality anyway).
Third, in the absence of a strong family history, ovarian cancer is a disease of the 50’s and 60’s, and often goes undetected until late stages even in the setting of routine gyn exams. Therefore, WTS will not be hurt in the ovarian cancer arena.
Finally, uterine cancer is a disease of the 50’s and 60’s, and more common in overweight women and smokers. Besides, there is no examination procedure performed for uterine cancer during the GYN exam. Suspicion is aroused when a history of spotting in a post-menupausal woman or inter-menstrual bleeding in a reproductive aged woman is elicited. WTS could self-refer to a GYN if she experienced either of these symptoms. Therefore, WTS does not require GYN exams for uterine cancer surveillance.
Point is (and I’ve seen you argue along these lines before), the standard formulation for reducing life’s inevitable risks needn’t be applied so blindly.
I actually prefer the term Asshole, thank you very much. And I’m still not ever going to get a GYN Exam.
Sounds like still more reasons why WTS does not require a GYN exam.:rolleyes:
Anyway, Jodi, pretend we’re discussing a 32 yo, non-sexually active woman.
WONKO –
I’ll keep that in mind. But I’ll also remind you that intentionally being a jerk – oh, pardon me, an asshole – is frowned upon in these here parts.
CHOOSYBEGGAR, I think saying that breast/ovarian/uterine cancers are “diseases of the '40s, '50s, and '60s” implies that women under 40 do not get these diseases. But that’s just wrong; they do. It may be (and is) that average age is 40+, but there’s a lot of women who are unfortunately not average. To say a female non-asshole Wonko doesn’t need examination for these types of cancers because she is younger than the average victim is IMO nothing more than a tenuous playing of the odds.
Every woman is at risk for these diseases. And therefore IMO every woman should be examined for them on a regular basis – be that every year, every two years, or every three years, depending on their circumstances (age, sexual activity, family history, etc.). IANAD, but I have never heard any doctor recommend a woman of any type go more than three years without a Pap and breast exam. For Wonko to imply that it is okay to never have one because nothing bad has happened yet, and further that it’s okay to never have one, is misleading to all the non-asshole women who might be reading this thread.
I lost a friend to ovarian cancer at the ripe old age of 26. She had no family history of it, and, like the majority of ovarian cancer cases, had no symptoms until it was too late. It may be true that the odds are that each of us will not get sick with these diseases until later (if ever), but the fickle finger of fate will rest on the unlucky few, and IMO if an annual exam prevents you (me, anyone) from being among the unlucky, then we should have 'em.