My, you certainbly have a lot inversted in this conversation. What if he’s a shape shifting alien?
I have nothing against the Laura Johnson solution. It worked for her. And she got a nice cross country drive out of it.
But do you want to compare success results? Let’s ask Robert Jensen and Carol King whether going along and not fighting back works. They did what they were told when carjacked, they drove the car and didn’t resist. Oh, we can’t, because they were murdered at their destination.
??? I don’t have much “invested” in this conversation. I’m at a loss as to what you mean by this.
This is a pretty odd response. I don’t think I’m the one being unrealistic in this conversation. You’re not only assuming that you would have the cool nerves of an action movie hero, but that the carjacker would follow your script for how a carjacker is supposed to act.
Yes, you’re right, going along with a violent criminal doesn’t always mean you survive. Of course, we also don’t have the counterfactual scenario where Robert Jensen and Carol King tried to bluff their carjacker with a threat of a high-speed crash, so we don’t know how that would have worked. Maybe they survive. Maybe the carjacker calls their bluff, and they die anyway. Maybe their deaths are even more horrific.
Look, I’m not saying “Don’t fight back.” Cooperating and fighting back both have significant risks, and I’m certainly not going to tell someone they should have acted differently in a life-or-death situation.
I’m saying the “bluff being a suicidal driver” solution 1) involves utterly unrealistic expectations and assumptions about your ability to think quickly and calmly in a high-stress situation; 2) involves unrealistic expectations and assumptions about how a violent criminal will act in that high-stress situation; and 3) hasn’t actually been shown to work in real life, beyond an anonymous second-hand anecdote (if we’re comparing results).
So what is the kidnapper doing in the time between when you’re punching the accelerator of this imaginary car that has just past the 55 mph mark and hitting 120 mph? He’s probably got a good 20-30 seconds of thumb twiddling while this is happening.
If I’m the kidnapper and I’ve shown that I’m perfectly willing to kill someone, the second you pass 55 and are still lead-footing it, I’m giving you 1 second to take your foot off the pedal or I’m pulling the trigger and driving from the passenger seat. If you really punched it, you might be up to 57 mph by that time and I’m pretty sure I can coast to safety.
then when he gets to where he is forcing you to go, then he rapes you and kills you and tortures you. In any order. Then he drives back and does the same to your family. Because he’s got a gun, you just go along.
You do what you think is best for the situation, and so will I. In the unlikely event this happens to both of us, we can come back and compare results.
I’m just saying that neither of us is getting the car to 120 mph, or even 80 for that matter.
I wonder if after a while some degree of Stockholm Syndrome might have been starting to set in as well.
I’m not sure how I would handle it, but after the first few hours of shock and fear wore off, I would be looking for an opportunity to escape the situation. This is what is confusing me. I certainly can’t put myself in her shoes, but 33 hours is a long time in a car without a semblance of an opportunity to escape.
Maybe she took it as an opportunity to do something heroic and stay with the guy to protect a potential next victim and talk him into turning himself in. But I think after several hours, I’d bail out at a gas station around lots of people. I also can’t fathom not sleeping for going on 40 hours…I’d crash the car from sheer exhaustion.
I’m sure you’d be looking for an opportunity. I’m a lot less sure you’d be finding it. If he’s distracted or has dozed off, do you chance it? Just how confident are you that he won’t notice? Do you think he’s more likely to kill you if try to run, or if you cooperate?
Sure, but how much of a “semblance” does it need to be? He’s dozed off - do you think you can stop the car and get out before he wakes up and shoots you? Do you think you can detour to a highway patrol station and get there before he wakes up and shoots you? And just how confident are you that he’s asleep, and not just toying with you?
You stop for gas, and you have to get out to pump gas, and he turns away for a moment. How long is that moment? How confident are you that you can get way before he realizes you’re running and shoots you? And maybe a bunch of innocent bystanders? Or maybe he gets out to pump. Can you start the car up and get away before the pulls out his gun and shoots you? Or maybe he insists you both get out, and he’s right by you, watching the whole time, his hand near his gun.
I’ve had to stay awake for 48 hour straight before. And done complex tasks that required careful attention. It’s brutal. But it’s possible. It also impairs judgement and reaction time and the ability to think clearly. Which is another factor - those “semblances of an opportunity to escape” are going to get harder and harder to spot and take advantage of.
I remember an online poll that showed that a great majority of young American women would be seriously tempted if a man offered them a chance to just walk away from it all, right now, and start over. Given that the man “seemed” safe and reliable.
Most people harbor romantic notions about a prince charming.
Or maybe she thought they were only going 200 miles, to Milwaukie, Oregon.
Could you be any more idiotic?
Yes, that must be it. Her secret womanly desires held her in the sway of a crazed murderer. Checks out.
[My mistake in attacking the poster, not the post.]
Could your post be any more idiotic?
This is incredibly misogynistic and borderline threadshitting. Please drop the topic.
Damn, thanks for the memory of my favorite short story from back in the day!
(If I were a boring “Dad-type”, I’d tell you all about a short story party where we all read our favorites in front of a fireplace.) (IF…)
eta: Yes, I know the story is a total fantasy, and would virtually never work in real life. I’m actually in awe of Laura Johnson and her ability to reason with a murderer.
What Niven write of the story is:
The preceding story was not autobiographical. I daydreamed it while driving the Santa Monica Freeway.
The guy who asked me that question tells me that he was once threatened by a hitchhiker with a knife… and that a friend of his tells the same story. Neither of the two tried that fancy suicide approach. They explained to their assailants that if they didn’t see total surrender damn quick, they were going to obliterate the right side of the car against a tree at sixty mph. The left side of the car would have to take its chances.
It worked for them. I hope I won’t ever have to try that approach myself.
I think I’d be constantly thinking of Konerak Sinthasomphone, Jeffrey Dahmer’s victim who got away and wasn’t believed. The police returned him to Dahmer and he was killed.