How not to board a subway, or, "Mind the gap!"

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

[QUOTE=Ale]
There’s no metro system in my homecountry, but in all the places I’ve been in SE Asia that have metro systems, Bangkok, Singapore and Hong Kong, you can’t get in or fall to the tracks simply because they had the common sense of closing them up in glass with doors that open only when the train arrives, why isn’t that standard for all metro systems?
[/QUOTE]

It’s difficult to retrofit many systems, because they have the same stations serving different types/generations of trains, and the spacing of the doors is not consistent. Hell, when I first started catching trains in Sydney, there was still first generation rolling stock designed in the 1920s, where the train doors didn’t even close automatically. It was considered normal just to ride through the tunnels inches away from concrete and metal poles whizzing by, simply by holding on. And no teenage boy worth his salt would be a “big girl” by waiting for the train to come to a complete stand before alighting. Being able to successfully jump off the running train was a major coolness factor for my generation.

42

[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
It’s difficult to retrofit many systems, because they have the same stations serving different types/generations of trains, and the spacing of the doors is not consistent. Hell, when I first started catching trains in Sydney, there was still first generation rolling stock designed in the 1920s, where the train doors didn’t even close automatically. It was considered normal just to ride through the tunnels inches away from concrete and metal poles whizzing by, simply by holding on. And no teenage boy worth his salt would be a “big girl” by waiting for the train to come to a complete stand before alighting. Being able to successfully jump off the running train was a major coolness factor for my generation.
[/QUOTE]

I see, I didn’t thougt that there would be different kinds of trains running in the same line.

43

I just saw a show called jobs nobody wants to do or most disgusting jobs or something like that. One segment was a company that cleaned up after dead bodies. Usally it’s somebody dies alone and bloats leaving goo soaked into the carpet. Also murders and suicides. It showed a guy in a maintenence pit under a subway car picking off the bits of clothing and flesh off the exposed bolts and sharp pointy bits under the car. He cleaned and disinfected the blood and gore off before it could be returned to service.

No sign of kitty litter.

Ugh.

44

[QUOTE=Ale]
There’s no metro system in my homecountry, but in all the places I’ve been in SE Asia that have metro systems, Bangkok, Singapore and Hong Kong, you can’t get in or fall to the tracks simply because they had the common sense of closing them up in glass with doors that open only when the train arrives, why isn’t that standard for all metro systems?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t have a good answer for you (in relationship to Broomstick’s response, the Los Angeles metro system was built in the 90s, so there’s no real excuse), but unless I’m visualizing incorrectly, the system you describe wouldn’t have prevented my accident.

45

[QUOTE=Asimovian]
…it’s hard to believe I managed to get my foot and leg in there – it really isn’t a very big gap.
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“Mind the gap” is even showing up on T-shirts, but how big is that gap that you could get a foot into it?

Around here, the gap between train and platform edge is pretty small. BART trains have relatively sophisticated suspensions and come to a stop and open the doors with only an inch so of gap - really a hazard only to high heels - but the MUNI trains rock and roll down the tracks, so they have a flap under the doors that pops into place as the doors open to shrink the gap.

46

[QUOTE=gotpasswords]
Around here, the gap between train and platform edge is pretty small. BART trains have relatively sophisticated suspensions and come to a stop and open the doors with only an inch so of gap - really a hazard only to high heels - but the MUNI trains rock and roll down the tracks, so they have a flap under the doors that pops into place as the doors open to shrink the gap.
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The gap that exists right in front of where the doors open is probably an inch or so – there is a mini platform that juts out from the subway car and nearly touches the station platform. However, I side-stepped to avoid the person in front of me and stepped just outside of where the platform jutted out. That gap, I would estimate, is about four or five inches.

47

Yow, that’s a big gap!

So how did something like that get built so recently? BART’s been running with that one-inch gap between the edge of the platform and the edge of the train for all of its 35 or so years. I can only guess you’ve got curved platforms, requiring a design that sits back from the edge a bit more - BART’s platforms are all straight.

48

[QUOTE=gotpasswords]
Yow, that’s a big gap!

So how did something like that get built so recently? BART’s been running with that one-inch gap between the edge of the platform and the edge of the train for all of its 35 or so years. I can only guess you’ve got curved platforms, requiring a design that sits back from the edge a bit more - BART’s platforms are all straight.
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Nope…every single platform on the Red Line is straight. Maybe I’m off by a bit and it’s more like three inches, but I don’t think so. I don’t know that I’m going to be brave enough to walk down there with a ruler any time soon, and I can just see how well THAT would go over if a security guard noticed me doing that in our post-9/11 world. :slight_smile:

49

[QUOTE=Ale]
There’s no metro system in my homecountry, but in all the places I’ve been in SE Asia that have metro systems, Bangkok, Singapore and Hong Kong, you can’t get in or fall to the tracks simply because they had the common sense of closing them up in glass with doors that open only when the train arrives, why isn’t that standard for all metro systems?
[/QUOTE]

That’s true here of the subway, but you could still easily fall onto the tracks of the Skytrain. The guards on the platform do a pretty good job of keeping people back, though.

50

[QUOTE=Asimovian]
I don’t have a good answer for you (in relationship to Broomstick’s response, the Los Angeles metro system was built in the 90s, so there’s no real excuse), but unless I’m visualizing incorrectly, the system you describe wouldn’t have prevented my accident.
[/QUOTE]

I think Ale is describing something like this - the edge of the platform is completely enclosed, with doors that open to align with the train doors. This setup (becoming the standard for modern underground systems) is basically jumper/faller proof, apart from the (very small) gap between the two sets of doorjambs.
You would most likely have just clunked into the partition beside the door.

51

The D.C. metro is the only subway kind of car I’ve ever ridden and there is not much of a gap at all. I do get nervous sometimes, especially if it is crowded and people are rushing around. I’m afraid I will get bumped right off the platform.

I just had my frst experience with Amtrak trains recently, and at one station where I got off, they made an announcement to “Mind the gap” and when I got to the exit I could see why- it was huge!! It was more of a leap off the train than a step. They did have people at the door helping everyone get off though.

52

[QUOTE=slaphead]
I think Ale is describing something like this - the edge of the platform is completely enclosed, with doors that open to align with the train doors. This setup (becoming the standard for modern underground systems) is basically jumper/faller proof, apart from the (very small) gap between the two sets of doorjambs.
You would most likely have just clunked into the partition beside the door.
[/QUOTE]
Now that makes a lot of sense. Curse you, Los Angeles MTA for not getting with the program!

53

[QUOTE=slaphead]
I think Ale is describing something like this - the edge of the platform is completely enclosed, with doors that open to align with the train doors. This setup (becoming the standard for modern underground systems) is basically jumper/faller proof, apart from the (very small) gap between the two sets of doorjambs.
You would most likely have just clunked into the partition beside the door.
[/QUOTE]

Not to mention that you can actually have A/C for the platform since the tunnel is sealed.

And extra Advertising Space!

54

[QUOTE=Asimovian]
Subway doors do NOT have those kinds of sensors, folks!
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I dunno about BART, but Muni Metro (kind of a hybrid light rail/subway entirely within SF proper) does. Whenever it’s set off, there’s a seven-second ear-piercing beep, I suppose to shame people into not holding the doors on purpose. It actually works fairly well, though every SF commuter knows the sound.

And yes, standing/stopping in front of an open subway door is stupid.

55

[QUOTE=slaphead]
I think Ale is describing something like this - the edge of the platform is completely enclosed, with doors that open to align with the train doors. This setup (becoming the standard for modern underground systems) is basically jumper/faller proof, apart from the (very small) gap between the two sets of doorjambs.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, that’s very similar to our subway and others I’ve seen over here, such as singapore and Hong Kong, maybe Kuala Lumpur. And in Bangkok, a recorded voice tells you to mind the minimal gap that does still appear.

But our elevated train, called the Skytrain, is just an open platform. And I think the elevated parts of the system in both Singapore and Kuala Lumpur are the same. I guess it would be too impractical to erect a set of doors like that in such a case?

56

[QUOTE=Siam Sam]
I guess it would be too impractical to erect a set of doors like that in such a case?
[/QUOTE]

I’m sure it could be done, even if there were a few issues. However overland and underground trains do seem to operate with different mindsets about this sort of thing, for some reason.

Anyhow, if you want a fun contrast between over/underground, compare the gaps on a bendy tube platform (e.g. Bank) with the Infamous Clapham Junction. You get the same Mind The Gap messages over the tannoy, but on the tube you’re looking at a max of probably 30-40 cm. At Clapham the much longer rail carriages can leave you leaping over a gap of up to a metre or so :eek:

57

[QUOTE=NineToTheSky]
In London, we used to have buses like this that were open at the back, allowing you jump on and off at will.

I was running to jump on to a moving bus in Oxford Street, leapt, miscalculated, and went splat on to the tarmac. I ripped my trousers, gashed my knee, got bruised in various places, and felt a complete prat.

What made it a lot worse was that the road was very busy, but fortunately the very alert taxi driver behind me managed to slam on his brakes before making jam roly-poly of me.
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That’s sort of how Antoni Gaudí, the architect of the Sagrada Familia, died. I don’t remember if it was jumping off a tram without waiting for it to stop, or trying to jump onto one.

Glad you’re ok, Asimovian.

58

[QUOTE=Broomstick]
About 12 or 15 years ago a woman on the South Shore train platform at Randolph Station (now “Millennium Station”) fell into the gap and was crushed, but if I recall, she took about an hour or so to die. Lower body destroyed, upper body awake, coherent, and in agony.
[/QUOTE]
Possible urban legend: “The Last Kiss.” Usually told about industrial machinery, or about the New York subway, where it’s called a “space case.”

The NY version has suspicious aspects:

-the victim is always conscious, even able to speak. Shock, pain, or painkillers are never mentioned.
-the pressure between car and platform walls “keeps them alive” by holding their insides together.
-loved ones are called in, often in person, delaying trains on the line for hours.
-it’s usually told by police, not EMT or other personnel.

I lived in/around NYC for 18 years and never saw any news reports about a “space case.”

59

[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
Possible urban legend: “The Last Kiss.” Usually told about industrial machinery, or about the New York subway, where it’s called a “space case.”

Strange aspects of the legend:
-the victim is always conscious, even able to speak. Shock and pain are never mentioned.
[/quote]

I believe I mentioned she was in agony.

I don’t know about that bit. For all I know in the case I’ve mentioned she simply slowly bled to death or something after her legs were severed. Or, after being crushed, she bled to death from internal injuries.

I don’t know if they contacted her loved ones or not prior to her death. However, it DID delay the trains for hours, as just about any accident will. I remember that night, because I had to find alternate transportation home. I also spoke briefly to a conductor who was witness to the accident, who, hearing her initial scream, had pulled the emergency stop on the train and gone to see what was wrong.

Now, I understand that there are an abundance of urban legends, however, I was not repeating one. I was speaking of an accident where I had some personal knowledge of the event. People DO get run over or crushed by trains from time to time, that is fact, not urban legend. Nor do they always die immediately, and not everyone passes out from the pain of their injuries. In fact, if shock sets in, they can actually stop feeling much or all of the pain you’d expect them to feel.

It also stuck in my mind because, while the Metra seems to run over a customer on at least a monthly basis, the South Shore rarely sees a death.

As far as the industrial machinery bit - I know of someone who was crushed by the door of a coke oven in Gary, but no one said the door “held his insides together”. As it happens, they were able to jury-rig a phone so he could call his wife before he died (this was before the era of cellphones) but he was clearly in horrible pain and slowly bleeding to death. Once they lifted the door off him he bled out much quicker because it had, indeed, been pinching some blood vessels closed. I heard about it from the crane operator who lifted the door off his body. Again, not a “legend” but an actual event. Granted, it was second hand but I heard about it from someone who was actually there and not a “friend of a friend”.

I think the urban legend in question grew out of such accidents, tales being retold and embellished along the way to emphasize the horror of it all. That in no way means that such accidents - where people are severely injured/crushed and remain alive for a brief while afterward - don’t happen.

Unless, of course, you maintain the eyewitnesses and I are all lying, and the South Shore delayed train service for hours just to maintain the fiction of an urban legend.

60

Not at all. But you were awfully terse, so much so that I had no idea you had any first- (or even reliable second-) hand knowledge.

I don’t doubt the victim in the incident you describe was in agony (indescribable agony, to be specific). But the NY police stories don’t include that, and they’re similar enough in other respects that I suspect they’re a by-product of departmental solidarity - something you tell guys in bars because it burnishes the reputation of the force.

NYPD space case
NYC EMT space case (unconscious victim, died in hospital)