# How offensive is "Merry Christmas" to a Jew? (Bill O'Riley situation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008 "2005-12-04T06:41:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/181 "2005-12-08T10:26:55Z")
Proving again that the unarmed should not engage in battles of wits, lets alone with a sucessful satirist. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/182 "2005-12-08T11:40:33Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Proving again that the unarmed should not engage in battles of wits, lets alone with a sucessful satirist. Casting ayes upon him, his works and wakes. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/183 "2005-12-08T11:49:25Z")
I have no idea how that extra ‘s’ snuck in there. I would like to blame Christmas hating liberals, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/184 "2005-12-08T12:52:32Z")
> [@Race Bannon](#): > > If I may remind everyone that I touched off this thread - and I have to say I’m kinda proud. I had sort of taken some time off from the SDMB, but I’m glad to see I can touch off a 4 page topic. ::golf claps and a pat on the head:: Surely, however, you see that you owe the lion’s share of the credit to **justwannano** , who it turns out, actually doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/185 "2005-12-08T15:50:53Z")
[Here’s the clip of last night’s episode.](http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TDS-OReilly-bustedonChristmas.wmv) Scroll down to “The Daily Show slams O’Reilly over using a year old “DS” Christmas bit”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/186 "2005-12-08T15:54:50Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well hey, I hear ya. I’m no longer practicing, but I was raised Catholic so I understand. > I think I’m going to start a new holiday called “LetsAllJustGetAlong-Masukah”. And we shall decorate however we please, with trees or candles, and give gifts, and eat lots of food, get drunk, and give the finger to anyone who has a problem with it. > > Oh, and we get an O’Reilly pinata and whack the living shit out of it. > > Who’s with me? I’m there. I’ll bring the biggest whoop-ass stick I have, for the pinata and I’ll even bring a made-it-myself Billy O dartboard 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/187 "2005-12-08T16:01:10Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > (It’s better live, obviously) > > Brilliant. It was great stuff. I couldn’t stop laughing. Stewart was incredible, and O’Reilly got spanked. The kissy faces and the pitter-pat heart thing were priceless 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/188 "2005-12-09T02:42:05Z")
The taurobolium was not originally a Cybeline practice. It belonged to the Mithraic religion. The way it became associated with Cybelines was the Mithra people requested a Cybeline priestess to oversee this rite. A contemporary researcher on Cybele wrote > [@](#): > > self-flagellation was connected with Gallae only, referenced mainly during the Phrygian period and occasionally during the Roman. It was always associated with the day of blood (may have given it its name) It was not a common ritual practice and in fact has a physiological basis connected with emasculation since it deadens the nerves and makes a shock response quicker all of which made castration safer and less deadly. Given that today most of us have surgery rather than do it yourself castration, I personally see it as something easily ignored. If someone into S & M wanted to do it as part of personal practice, I’d see no real problem with that. > > Chelsea, in her own to root of the matter manner, has called Cybeline religious practice ancient “sex drugs and rock and roll” which actually is pretty accurate. Ecstatic dance and music, trance states, and sensuality are all important routes to connection with the All. > > It is important when doing research to remember that most accounts we have were written by outsiders and naturally are going to focus more on the “shocking” aspects than on the actual, mundane, practices. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/189 "2005-12-09T13:47:03Z")
As I understand from my Christian friends,Jesus purpose in coming to earth was to die for the sins of mankind, then they should be grateful to whom ever was responsible for the Death of Jesus because without that they would not be saved and could not go to Heaven after they died. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/190 "2005-12-09T14:15:06Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > As I understand from my Christian friends,Jesus purpose in coming to earth was to die for the sins of mankind, then they should be grateful to whom ever was responsible for the Death of Jesus because without that they would not be saved and could not go to Heaven after they died. > > Monavis Which is why- if I had a time machine, I would go to Nicea 325 AD, become Bishop of Rome, and make it a holy obligation for Christians to at least weekly say or do something nice for Jews- daily from Christmas to Epiphany & during the Paschal Week. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/191 "2005-12-09T15:34:11Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > The taurobolium was not originally a Cybeline practice. It belonged to the Mithraic religion. The way it became associated with Cybelines was the Mithra people requested a Cybeline priestess to oversee this rite. A contemporary researcher on Cybele wrote There is by no means scholarly consensus on this issue. This contemporary researcher is perhaps a little too tendentious for my taste as well. Perhaps this person writes for [gallae.com](http://gallae.com)? This argument is difficult to accept because, admittedly, both Mithraism and worship of Cybele are poorly documented. The first well-attested taurobolium wasn’t in the name of either deity, but was dedicated to Venus Caelestis. There may be good reasons to accept or reject the writings of Prudentius, but foisting the tradition off on another group without even thinner attestation is pretty dubious. I also find the argument that self-flagellation can be dispensed with to be dubious in the extreme. It smacks of the following reasoning: we don’t know much about our faith save what our enemies wrote, so we can toss out all of the practices that we do not find appealing today, since they _must_ have been inventions by our enemies. The idea that one can simply dispense with self-flagellation because of the technological innovation of surgery is like telling a Jew he doesn’t need to keep Kosher because he drinks pasteurized milk. Are you (collectively) inventing this faith? How do you tell actual revelation from falsehood? Please, feel free to start a thread. I’d be happy to, but I do not want to be too presumptuous. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/192 "2005-12-09T21:08:02Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Proving again that the unarmed should not engage in battles of wits, lets alone with a sucessful satirist. Don’t bring a pea shooter to an artillery battle. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/193 "2005-12-09T21:56:46Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > O’Reilly is a pathetic little man, whose only purpose is to attack other people. Ooow! Now in addition to peeing on his grave, I have something to write on his tombstone. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![marymargaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@marymargaret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marymargaret)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/194 "2005-12-10T05:52:55Z")
Christmas has so many pagan roots that I can’t believ O’Reilly isn’t seeing the irony in this argument. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/195 "2005-12-10T08:15:46Z")
> [@marymargaret](#): > > Christmas has so many pagan roots that I can’t believ O’Reilly isn’t seeing the irony in this argument. ALL-PURPOSE FORUM SNARK **marymargaret** : Why do you hate [] freedom? America? [] morality? God? [] those who are different from you? [] decency? [] honest debate? [] children? [] women? [] men? [] grammar? [] our armed forces? western civilization? [] non-western civilization? [] animals? [] actually working instead of asking for entitlements? I am asking this because you [] are obviously insensitive. do not seem able to grasp the truth of the situation. [] are intentionally obfuscatory. [] seem to love strawmen. use hateful rhetoric. [] just don’t get it. [] do not appreciate the sacrifices which have been made for you. [] do not grok why tolerance in all things is vital for our society. [] deny the importance of capitalism. [] lack empathy. [] cannot see past your own prejudices. [] keep evading the issue. [] are a fascist of the spirit and seek to impose your will upon everybody else. [] don’t take responsibility for your own life. I would hope that you will, in the future [] not bring up useless nitpicking tangents. [] not be a partisan shill. [] refrain from being an ideologue. [] read something about the topic before you post. [] preview your posts. [] lurk more, post less. [] think twice, post once. stop being evil. [] stop being such a bleeding heart. [] use logic instead of hollow rhetoric. [] conduct yourself honorably. [] learn something about other cultures. [] take a stand on other cultures and not rely on moral relativism. [] type your post in MS Word format first. [] stop trying to impose your will on others. [] have some empathy and compassion. [] grow a spine. If you do not do that, you should [] go to another country. [] grow old knowing that nobody will ever love you. [] smash your computer with a hammer. [] smash your computer with a hammer and eat the pieces. [] not renew your SDMB subscription. [] leave the boards right now before you get banned. [] seek intensive therapy. [] stop taking drugs. [] start taking drugs. accept that this is a Christian nation and shut up about it already. [] stop whining and grow up. [] stop sniffing glue. [] never breed. [] jump in a lake. [] try reading books instead of burning them. [] think for yourself. [] take some personal responsibility. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/196 "2005-12-10T14:32:04Z")
“Some people, like Bill O’Reilly, are claiming that other people, like Jon Stewart, are anti-Christmas. These people are liars. They are using a scare tactic to influence the ignorant and credulous, in the hopes that those same people will support their other political agendas. However, the threat they are talking about does not exsist. It is a lie invented to distract people like you from the genuine problems in this country…” I completely agree with this. It appears to me that the annual “they are trying to get rid of Christmas” war whoop is started every year by groups like the Alliance Defense Fund and The Liberty Councel. Here is a blurb I read about some of the groups: "The Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal group based in Scottsdale, Ariz., announced this month that its 800 cooperating attorneys have volunteered to handle without fee complaints about “improper attempts to censor the celebration of Christmas in schools and on public property.” In 2004, the second year of its “Christmas Project,” affiliated attorneys sent a detailed memo on ADF’s view of Christmas and constitutional law to 7,000 school districts. The 2005 effort, already under way, adds city officials. A similar information campaign is being waged by Liberty Counsel, another Christian legal group based in Orlando, Fla., and the Christian Educators Association International, representing 8,000 public school teachers… " I don’t think their fears are valid and that they are just another very organized and vocal activist minority group who uses tactics similar to the Discovery Institute on evolution. ---
**Author:** ![marymargaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@marymargaret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marymargaret)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/197 "2005-12-10T18:15:01Z")
Sorry. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/198 "2005-12-11T03:23:00Z")
i’m up off the floor now, and I think in a few more minutes I’ll be able toeypoeittype ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/199 "2005-12-11T10:13:11Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > i’m up off the floor now, and I think in a few more minutes I’ll be able toeypoeittype Que? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/200 "2005-12-11T14:48:31Z")
He’s more sober than he was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008.md?page=11)