# How offensive is "Merry Christmas" to a Jew? (Bill O'Riley situation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008 "2005-12-04T06:41:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/221 "2005-12-13T04:02:00Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > And you know these percentages how? Do the Jews walk around with yellow stars so that you can easily identify them? Or am I the only one who genuinely has no idea if a person is Jewish or not unless they are Orthodox? 😕 Are you really confused as to how someone can every day with a group of people, for several years, working closely together, and forming most of one’s primary non-familial social bonds within that group, might somehow figure out the religious beliefs of those other people? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/222 "2005-12-13T04:23:55Z")
**crowmanyclouds** , I recommend you get Islamic dates from [http://www.rabiah.com/convert/](http://www.rabiah.com/convert/) – the dates are accurate as can be, although the spelling of months is very erratic and should not be imitated. The Islamic date changes in relation to the Gregorian date every year. A date correspondance that’s valid for one year may not repeat again for many years. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/223 "2005-12-13T04:29:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Are you really confused as to how someone can every day with a group of people, for several years, working closely together, and forming most of one’s primary non-familial social bonds within that group, might somehow figure out the religious beliefs of those other people? Consider the Little Old Goyisch Ladies who came into the Library where I worked and cry out “Merry Christmas!” on the way out. I was Goyisch myself at that point, but even more annoyed by that sort of thing than I am now and once responded, “And a Joyous Channukah!”. She stuttered, “Oh, I’m so sorry!” 🙂 I never did wear my religion or lack thereoff on my sleeve. I think the average guy in the USA assumes I’m Christian, because by definition the average guy is himself. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/224 "2005-12-13T08:51:22Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > **crowmanyclouds** , I recommend you get Islamic dates from [http://www.rabiah.com/convert/](http://www.rabiah.com/convert/) – the dates are accurate as can be, although the spelling of months is very erratic and should not be imitated. The Islamic date changes in relation to the Gregorian date every year. A date correspondance that’s valid for one year may not repeat again for many years. Cool! Thanks. Hopefully this whole silly argument will go away and I won’t need to remind people that there are other religions with holidays that (sometimes) coincide with Christian ones! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/225 "2005-12-13T10:17:05Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > In Christian salvation theology the crucifixion, in itself, is a specially orchestrated act of God. It is not about making good from bad. The crucifixion _per se_ is God’s will. It is logically contradictory to say that doing God’s will can be evil. > > An idea which is straight out of Augustine. I always did think his _felix culpa_ was kind of silly, though. > > But like I said, the role of the crucifixion in Christian soteriology is in itself (pardon the pun) crucial to God’s plan of salvation. It’s not about making lemonade out of lemons. The lemons themselves were God’s idea. \* > > And this is exactly what distinguishes the fall from the crucifixion. The fall was (ostensibly) an event _contrary_ to God’s will. The crucifixion was God’s own idea. Well put. But the one important point is that those who called for Jesus’s crucifixion, and those who carried it out, were not intent upon doing God’s will at the time, but on killing Jesus for their own selfish purposes; and their actions are judged according to their intent. That God knew perfectly well what would happen, that he _intended_ it, and that what happened served his purposes despite the best endeavours of the executioners, does not let them off the hook. Jesus himself said that his forthcoming betrayal was necessary, but woe to the man that did it; and any one of those who brought about his death might have chosen differently. [gratuitous flattery]As usual, the breadth of your knowledge on the subject almost strikes me dumb. I can honestly say that I would rather have my debating ass kicked by you than be agreed with by ten lesser men, **Dio**.[/gf] ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/226 "2005-12-13T19:21:38Z")
Has everyone seen this yet? It’s hilarious. [http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/12/lol.03.html](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/12/lol.03.html) Here are some great snippets, but you all really need to savor the whole thing. \*SEDER: Listen, as far as the war on Christmas goes, I feel like we should be waging a war on Christmas. I mean, I believe that Christmas, it’s almost proven that Christmas has nuclear weapons, can be an imminent threat to this country, that they have operative ties with terrorists and I believe that we should sacrifice thousands of American lives in pursuit of this war on Christmas. And hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money. I would say probably, if I was to be serious about it, too much time on their hands, but I’d like to get back to the operational ties between Santa Claus and al Qaeda. Well, we have tortured an elf and it’s actually how we got the same information from Al Libbi. It’s exactly the same way the Bush administration got this info about the operational ties between al Qaeda and Saddam.\* ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/227 "2005-12-13T19:31:04Z")
DailyKos has a great post too. > **[yes, virginia, there is a war on christmas](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2005/12/13/171571/-)** > > \[ed. note: this is a reprint of the famous 1897 column from the national review online. we think it is as relevant to today's issues as it was back then\] > we take great pleasure in answering at once... _Yes Viriginia, there is a war on Christmas … it exists as certainly as lesbian feminazi’s who want to abort all the babies in the world exist, it exists as certainly as communist jewish pinkos who want to force children to worship satan in the schools exist. …_ Bob Harris got a screen grab of the Fox Network (those stout defenders of the Faith) web page. Hmmmm lots of that communistic, satanist, lesbianistic, baby burning, kitten eating, terroristic H word (holiday) there. [http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/782/1/](http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/782/1/) They are even playing a Where’s Waldo game of finding every instance of the H word 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/228 "2005-12-13T19:40:05Z")
said by a Jew Imagine the following scenario: Person 1: Happy Holidays! Person 2: What do you mean, “Happy Holidays?” It’s Christmas season! Are you one of those secular creeps, out to make this season into something it’s not? 1: No, I’m Jewish. I am trying to acknowledge what this season is too me, while not dismissing your holiday. 2: :o ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/229 "2005-12-13T19:41:53Z")
I meant the title to say “I think a better question would be How offensive is " Happy Holidays " to a Xtian, if said by a Jew”, but I was on auto pilot. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/230 "2005-12-14T00:25:48Z")
To be honest, I’d prefer it if people would say “Merry Christmas” when they mean it, instead of “Happy Holidays”. For instance, just have the freaking Christmas sale, forget the Holiday sale. Hanukkah usually falls a couple weeks before Christmas (although this year is an exception; the Jewish calendar had a “leap month” this year), and Christians rarely take note of this, inevitably people trying to be polite stutter a “Oh, uh, happy Hanukkah” when it’s been over for two weeks. Also, Hanukkah is a VERY minor holiday. It’s weird and strikes me as slightly condescending that Christians take so much note of it. Do these people ever wish me an easy fast on Yom Kippur? Or a good year on Rosh Hashanah? Or happy holiday on Pesach? With very few exceptions, no, they don’t, because those holidays - far, far more important than Hanukkah - don’t happen to fall so close to OMGWTFLOL!!!CHRISTMAS!!! They pass by without most Americans even noticing that they exist. I think I’d prefer it if someone simply wished me a pleasant day off. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/231 "2005-12-14T01:18:48Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > To be honest, I’d prefer it if people would say “Merry Christmas” when they mean it, instead of “Happy Holidays”. For instance, just have the freaking Christmas sale, forget the Holiday sale. > > Hanukkah usually falls a couple weeks before Christmas (although this year is an exception; the Jewish calendar had a “leap month” this year), and Christians rarely take note of this, inevitably people trying to be polite stutter a “Oh, uh, happy Hanukkah” when it’s been over for two weeks. > > Also, Hanukkah is a VERY minor holiday. It’s weird and strikes me as slightly condescending that Christians take so much note of it. Do these people ever wish me an easy fast on Yom Kippur? Or a good year on Rosh Hashanah? Or happy holiday on Pesach? With very few exceptions, no, they don’t, because those holidays - far, far more important than Hanukkah - don’t happen to fall so close to OMGWTFLOL!!!CHRISTMAS!!! They pass by without most Americans even noticing that they exist. > > I think I’d prefer it if someone simply wished me a pleasant day off. I don’t know how much of a defense this is, but Hannukah is the only Jewish holiday that most American Christians have ever heard of and they perceive it as some sort of Jewish equivalent of Christmas. They don’t _know_ it’s a minor holiday and they don’t _mean_ to be condescending (well, at least not always) they just have no real understanding of Jewish holidays. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/232 "2005-12-14T02:13:22Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I don’t know how much of a defense this is, but Hannukah is the only Jewish holiday that most American Christians have ever heard of and they perceive it as some sort of Jewish equivalent of Christmas. They don’t _know_ it’s a minor holiday and they don’t _mean_ to be condescending (well, at least not always) they just have no real understanding of Jewish holidays. Not to mention hannukah has catchy visual aids in the dreydl and menorah, the latter easily misconstrued for a post-bauhaus rendering of a permanent christmas tree… ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/233 "2005-12-14T02:38:34Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I don’t know how much of a defense this is, but Hannukah is the only Jewish holiday that most American Christians have ever heard of and they perceive it as some sort of Jewish equivalent of Christmas. They don’t _know_ it’s a minor holiday and they don’t _mean_ to be condescending (well, at least not always) they just have no real understanding of Jewish holidays. Yeah, I realize this. There’s not really a lot I can do about that, so it’s sort of a smile-and-nod situation. If I’m in a snarky mood, I might say “Oh, thanks, I did have a nice Hanukkah, last week” or something like that, but despite what certain people in this thread seem determined to believe, I’m not really that easily offended. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/234 "2005-12-14T02:53:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You have a good point there. We usually keep our pants on. ;j Considering that circumcsion has become all but routine here in the US, that wouldn’t tell you anything either. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/235 "2005-12-14T05:54:06Z")
Elsewhere on the web, people think it would be hilarious to drum up a summer ratings booster, to have O’Reilly take on those “stinkin’ Canadians” for not celebrating Independence Day 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/236 "2005-12-14T08:49:06Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Has everyone seen this yet? It’s hilarious. > [http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/12/lol.03.html](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/12/lol.03.html) Between the _lol_ in the URL and the name “Sam Seder”, I was convinced someone at CNN was goofin’ on us. But apparently not. There really _is_ a [Sam Seder](http://www.majorityreportradio.com/weblog/index.php), although whether that’s his real name or just a more tasteful alternative to “Bernie Briss”, I couldn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/237 "2005-12-14T14:41:41Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > \