# How offensive is "Merry Christmas" to a Jew? (Bill O'Riley situation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008 "2005-12-04T06:41:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/41 "2005-12-05T00:12:02Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I think Jon Stewart should send Mr. O’Reilly a nice christmas present. Perhaps a dildo and half an hour of free phone sex. I think he should buy him a coupon for a phone sex hotline. Or maybe order him a gift tub of falafel. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/42 "2005-12-05T00:22:23Z")
O’Reilly is being a confrontational jerk? What a surprise. We are just lucky that the phrase “Christ killing son of a bitch” didn’t show up in his greetings. The interesting thing is that until the late 19th Century we Anglo-Protestants regarded Christmas as the ultimate sign of the moral degradation of whisky drinking Irish, wine guzzling Italians and beer swilling Germans. It was only Clement Moore’s poem (Twas the night before Christmas / And all through the house) and Thomas Nast’s Santa Claus cartoons (later appropriated by the Coke a Cola Company) that turned Christmas into a general feast day. It was a feast not in celebration of the great mystery of God become man but of the commercial possibilities of buying stuff to give away. The Christmas our friend O’Reilly wants to honor is the great winter solstice festival beloved of the Chamber of Commerce and tree farmers. Buy an I-pod for the Baby Jesus. Otherwise all the poor damned Christians will have to hold secret services under the bridges with all the other despised souls. Poor things. How will they manage. And while we are at it, Merry Christmas, Mr O’Reilly, you demagogic, manipulative, lying, whining opportunist. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/43 "2005-12-05T00:31:03Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Jesus would want you to celebrate His brith Um, that would be January 1. The Feast of the Circumcision of Christ. ;j The Pagans have returned. And are we ever mad. It’s back into the catacombs for you Christians! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/44 "2005-12-05T00:33:25Z")
This “Take back Christmas” thing is getting out of hand. In Atlanta just this weekend, the governor’s office issued a stern, solemn correction to a previous memo that stated “The governor will light a holiday tree”. The correction stated emphatically that "The governor will be lighting a **Christmas** tree and the previous was a “politically correct” oversight. I just want to ask Governor Perdue if he could have his staff chaplain point out the Christmas trees in the bible, or failing that, if he has any idea of the origins of the tree celebration. I enjoy the thought of the staunch pro-Christian gloating over their power to erect what is decidedly a pagan icon. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/45 "2005-12-05T00:35:53Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > O’Reilly is being a confrontational jerk? What a surprise. We are just lucky that the phrase “Christ killing son of a bitch” didn’t show up in his greetings. > > The interesting thing is that until the late 19th Century we Anglo-Protestants regarded Christmas as the ultimate sign of the moral degradation of whisky drinking Irish, wine guzzling Italians and beer swilling Germans. As a person of the Sicilian persuasion (close enough to Italian for our purposes) and Catholic besides (horrors!!!) I can assure you, the serious over eating and wine guzzling is actually great fun. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Race\_Bannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Race\_Bannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Race_Bannon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/46 "2005-12-05T00:47:38Z")
The purpose of my OP has been satisfied, so let me ramble … Living here in the Bible belt, I’m often dismayed at they way Christians are oblivious to the fact that there are other faiths (Abrahamic, at that) that don’t see Jesus as worthy of worship. Here’s an example - I once accompanied a youth group from a Methodist Church (my wife and kids go there) to a service (Friday evening) in a small Jewish synagogue. I thought it was very hospitable of the Jewish folks to open their service to us. I, the athiest, put on a yarmaluke, and took in the experience. The rabbi was very kind to take questions and even to pull out the Torah (is that the right word?) for us to view. Then, to my horror, one of the adult leaders (not clergy) thanked him, and then asked all the kids to consider how this would help them get closer to Jesus. I wanted to crawl under a rock. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/47 "2005-12-05T01:29:24Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > And while we are at it, Merry Christmas, Mr O’Reilly, you demagogic, manipulative, lying, whining opportunist. You’ve given me the idea for a story in which Bill O’Reilly is visited by three spirits who try to teach him the meaning of Christmas. They want him to stop being so mean to Bob Holmes so Tiny Tucker will live. Call it _A Christmas Carp_. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/48 "2005-12-05T01:42:23Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > O’Reilly is an enthusiastic relay man for this propaganda network. He doesn’t care if he lies, he just passes on the daily talking points. From Media Matters, it looks like this to me. Billy O is free to fling unfounded insults at anyone he pleases. Then he invents out of thin air, an insult that “they” have directed at him - they didn’t he invented it. On to the secret plan to destroy our “christian country”. Finally, we end up with lots of euthanasia, drugs, butt sex, and maybe human sacrifice and cannibalism - I just added the last cuz it’s cool. Maybe it will cause pirates and ninjas too. 😃 What scares me, is people believe this shit. The asshole at work informed me Friday that “they” are attacking Christmas. He then said “they” should be exterminated. I told him he was a stupid fucking Nazi and to shut the fuck up. I really did. It was good. 😃 > [@Media Matters](#): > > [http://mediamatters.org/items/200512010017](http://mediamatters.org/items/200512010017) > To lead the segment, Cavuto aired O’Reilly’s November 28 advice to corporate America that “[e]very company in America should be on its knees thanking Jesus for being born.” O’Reilly then estimated that 15 percent of the country was not Christian and, of those, “maybe 1 percent are totally insane … They’re the ones who are offended.” When Cavuto countered that some businesses were trying to be more inclusive, O’Reilly rebuked, “This is insulting to Christian America.” > “This is insulting to Christian America.” > O’Reilly recently advanced his theory that an organized “secular progressive” movement is implementing a “very secret plan” against Christianity in America. He reiterated his concern – which he previously discussed on the November 18 edition of Fox News’ The O’Reilly Factor – about the secular progressive agenda: > O’REILLY: [T]hey [secular progressives] don’t want any message of spirituality or Judeo-Christian tradition because that stands in the way of gay marriage, legalized drugs, euthanasia, all of the greatest hits on the secular progressive play card. > O’Reilly then pointed to progressive financier George Soros as “the moneyman behind it” … > Christians aren’t going to be mad if you say “Happy Hanukkah” or “Happy Kwanzaa,” as long as you acknowledge what it’s all about, the federal holiday of Christmas. If you don’t, then Christians start to say, “You don’t like us. You’re anti-Christian, you have an anti-Christian bias.” > CAVUTO: You don’t buy the take that they’re trying to be inclusive or the companies that have that position are? > O’REILLY: This is insulting to Christian America. It’s insulting. This is driven by secular progressives – … > Secular progressives which are driving this movement, OK, don’t want Christmas. They don’t want it as a federal holiday, they don’t want any message of spirituality or Judeo-Christian tradition because that stands in the way of gay marriage, legalized drugs, euthanasia, all of the greatest hits on the secular progressive play card. If they can succeed in getting religion out of the public arena – ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/49 "2005-12-05T01:45:10Z")
You know, if I had “very secret plan against Christianity in America” I couldn’t do a better job of making them look like cretins than they are doing already. With friends like these, Christians don’t need enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/50 "2005-12-05T01:46:32Z")
> [@Race Bannon](#): > > Then, to my horror, one of the adult leaders (not clergy) thanked him, and then asked all the kids to consider how this would help them get closer to Jesus. > > I wanted to crawl under a rock. This is a little hijack, but you would not _believe_ how many Christians are under the impression that Jesus is an important figure in Judaism. I’ve had several people tell me that they learned that Jesus is considered a prophet for Jew in Sunday School as a kid. (I’m pretty sure their Sunday School teachers got Judaism and Islam mixed up.) The idea that Jews have absolutely no interest in Jesus at all is apparently incomprehensible to some folk. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/51 "2005-12-05T01:48:04Z")
Quote: Originally Posted by justwannano Of all the people on earth his life has had the greatest effect. Quote Finn That is certainly debatable. Name one person whose name is so well known. Name one person so many people try to emulate. * * * Quote: Originally Posted by justwannano Weather or not you believe he was God doesn’t mean you can’t celebrate his birthday. Quote Finn Why on earth would you celebrate his birthday, though? He was just another Jewish teacher, from my point of view. Hands down the greatest teacher. I’m sure you wouldn’t understand why I would want to celebrate my grandmothers birthday either. She doesn’t mean anything to you either. * * * Quote: Originally Posted by justwannano Hell we celebrate Washingtons birthday.Nobody I’ve heard of has objected to that. Quote Finn Was George Washington the founder of any religions that I’ve missed? Nope. he didn’t even do that. Note to self Find out how to make those boxes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/52 "2005-12-05T01:51:53Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > Name one person whose name is so well known. Name one person so many people try to emulate. Muhammad? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/53 "2005-12-05T01:58:31Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > Hands down the greatest teacher. > I’m sure you wouldn’t understand why I would want to celebrate my grandmothers birthday either. She doesn’t mean anything to you either. Well, that’s exactly the point! You are more than free to celebrate your grandmother’s birthday. But if some person on the street wished me a happy **justwannano** ’s grandmother’s birthday, I’d think they were odd. I obviously take ‘Merry Christmas’ in the spirit which it is meant, although I do admit that it would be nice if some people realized that Christianity isn’t universal. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/54 "2005-12-05T02:22:14Z")
I am the last person to be heard casting aspersions on anyone’s particular regime for getting his freak on, but is it not slightly ironic that a pervert (I can’t believe I actually typed that word, god forgive me) who oppresses his female co-workers with some really icky phone scenaria has the unmitigated gall to offer himself as a champion of any sort of spirituality? To quote a better man in a worse fix, “at long last, have you no shame?” ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/55 "2005-12-05T02:36:27Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > This is a little hijack, but you would not _believe_ how many Christians are under the impression that Jesus is an important figure in Judaism. I’ve had several people tell me that they learned that Jesus is considered a prophet for Jew in Sunday School as a kid. (I’m pretty sure their Sunday School teachers got Judaism and Islam mixed up.) > > The idea that Jews have absolutely no interest in Jesus at all is apparently incomprehensible to some folk. , as a matter of history: Jesus was a jew. All his disciples were jews All of their followers were jews, until Paul took over as vice president for marketing. The only difference between orthodox jews and jews who subscribed to the Nazarene sect was the issue of circumcision (a practice I have been known to deplore as fundamentally sex-negative and all-round sick). Is this any foundation upon which to build an identity? ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/56 "2005-12-05T04:16:57Z")
> [@Helen's Eidolon](#): > > Well, that’s exactly the point! You are more than free to celebrate your grandmother’s birthday. But if some person on the street wished me a happy **justwannano** ’s grandmother’s birthday, I’d think they were odd. > > I obviously take ‘Merry Christmas’ in the spirit which it is meant, although I do admit that it would be nice if some people realized that Christianity isn’t universal. I’m not sure what you mean saying "Christianity isn’t universal. " Surely you know that everyone is welcome to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/57 "2005-12-05T04:31:48Z")
Not everyone in North America is a Christian, “welcome to believe” or not. As I am not Christian, I do not celebrate Christmas. To wish me a ‘Merry Christmas’ is, to a certain extent, to imply that I am Christian or at least come from a Christian background. Does this make sense to you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/58 "2005-12-05T04:38:18Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > , > > as a matter of history: > > Jesus was a jew. > > All his disciples were jews > > All of their followers were jews, until Paul took over as vice president for marketing. > > The only difference between orthodox jews and jews who subscribed to the Nazarene sect was the issue of circumcision (a practice I have been known to deplore as fundamentally sex-negative and all-round sick). Well there was a bit more difference than that. There was a bit of a sticky wicket over the issue of whether Jesus was the Messiah, for instance. Actually, the earliest Jewish followers of Jesus (which is what I’m guessing you mean by the Nazaerenes) DID believe that Mosaic law, including circumcision, was still binding. Paul acknowledged that the Jerusalem Pillars (Peter, James, John) still thought circumcision was necessary. It was Paul, in his mission to the gentiles, who began to essentially substitute baptism for circumcision (an innovation which was opposed- at least initially- by the Pillars). ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/59 "2005-12-05T05:01:14Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > Name one person whose name is so well known. Name one person so many people try to emulate. You’re shifting the goalposts. You said had the greatest impact, not that the most people know and try to emulate. If you want to play it that way, how about Confucious, Mohammed, Sidhartha Gautama? How about Horus who helped inform the mythic structure of Jesus and whose statues of him with Isis were often changed to ‘mother with child’ without any alteration? If we’re to talk about impact, how about inventors? Guttenberg allowed for information to be transmitted more rapidly and easily than ever before, and is probably one of the most important developments in human history since we learned to use fire. Or, for that matter, how about the nameless pre-historic gent who first harnessed fire? I’d say that’s had a much bigger impact than Jesus. Mighty hard to cook food and warm you home with Jesus. > [@justwannano](#): > > Hands down the greatest teacher. According to what objective metric, exactly? > [@justwannano](#): > > I’m sure you wouldn’t understand why I would want to celebrate my grandmothers birthday either. She doesn’t mean anything to you either. Durrrrr, me no understand dat. :rolleyes: Your quote was about how whether or not you believe he was God, doesn’t mean you can’t celebrate his birthday. Along the same lines, **I** have no reason to celebrate _your_ grandmother’s birthday. Obviously, your grandmother has personal significance to you. What personal significance should a guy who was one of many Jewish teachers at that time have to me, or anybody else who doesn’t believe? Why would anybody celebrate his birthday? > [@justwannano](#): > > Nope. he didn’t even do that. Ya don’t say? So do you think the fact that nobody’s objected to it have anything to do with the fact that he’s a cultural rather than a religious icon, and all Amreicans can identify with him as a political figure, but only some Americans can identify with Jesus as anybody they think or care about? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/60 "2005-12-05T05:04:31Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I think, like everything, it would depend on who was saying and who it was being addressed to. I know a Jewish woman who probably would be offended if someone said “Merry Christmas”. As a teacher in the public school system, she made a big stink about the chorus kids singing about Jesus during the Holiday Concert and got them to change the program. Once, when I was a student in her class, another kid cried out “Jesus!” when someone hit him, and she retorted, quite aggressively: “Jesus isn’t here!” She’s also very devout Jew and very active in her community. > > But the other Jewish people I know aren’t that religious and would probably only be merely annoyed. Actually **Monstro** that crosses my line too, and I’m not so religious. Singing about Jesus? In a school program? Public government funded school? I’ll make noise too, it does not belong. Wish me a Merry Christmas, fine, doesn’t annoy me in the least, I just answer “And Happy Holidays to you too!”. But be very careful about crossing the line into promoting a particular majority religion within a public school system. And do not fool yourself into thinking that elevating the minor holiday of Hanukah into an equal time debacle somehow justifies celebrating a Christian holiday in the schools. THAT’S offensive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008.md?page=4)